Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 7:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/20/2017 6:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/19/2017 11:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Breaking them would benefit me, and everyone I assume, but, if I was WifS, I wouldn't do it. Because of this:

User 1 relinquishes the job
Users 1 and 2 apply for the job
User 2 is more qualified than User 1, but neither are sufficiently qualified
The gig goes to a sim

If they now give the gig to user 1, who (unjustifiably or not) is less qualified than user 2, then i can see why it would upset user 2. "hey, i got rejected from this job and took a worse post - but i have a better resume than the coach who you gave the job to!"


Without question, this would happen every season in every world and, quite possibly, multiple times. CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related and, undoubtedly, would make the wrong call, in someone's mind, every time. Can of worms I wouldn't open.

They should have plenty of time, because once they rolled out 3.0, they paid attention for about 2 weeks and basically abandoned the game. There was more WIS interaction when every world was loaded than there is now or in many years for that matter.

Neither of us know how much time they have. Only one of us is pretending that we do.

Funny, because only one of us pretended to know how much time they would spend restoring multiple users to teams every season that they wouldn't have time for anything else HD related. Sounds a lot like you are pretending to know how much time they have. Me on the other hand realize they had time to create 3.0, so they should have time to maintain it at a bare minimum. After driving out a large portion of the customer base, they should have more time to commit the users.

Why don't you tell me all the evidence that supports how often users are asking WIS to restore them to a team they forgot to renew on. I'd be willing to bet it's not nearly as often as you think, and likely doesn't take nearly as much time as you're assuming.

I didn't pretend they didn't have time. I stated, plainly, that it's a precedent they didn't want to set. It may have been due to time, headaches, simply sticking to the list guidelines, etc, etc.

Reading comprehension, bro.

Or, at the very least, assuming you did understand what I said, argue what I said not what you wish I'd said.

Let's agree to disagree on your statement, because your exact words were, "CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related". If I misunderstood your intention, then fine, but those are the words you said, not the words I "wish you said".

Internet statements are prone to exaggeration. I wouldn't do it if were them because of the ripple effects. It could become very time-consuming.

Plus, really, I was just arguing your whining "They don't pay attention to us anymore!!!!"

Posted by shoe3 on 4/20/2017 10:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 4/20/2017 9:28:00 AM (view original):
Why was this game so popular years ago when worlds were completely full?

I don't know why you wouldn't want to pay attention to how the game is doing as a whole. Or why you wouldn't care if the game is liked by anyone but yourself.

Best case- you get to play a game against all Sims and win a bunch. Worst case - the game is dead.

You are the king of hyperbole, Benis. The game isn't dead, or anything near that. There are ~100 coaches in the divisions of the worlds I play in, all 5. Lots of people like 3.0. No game is ever going to be perfectly suited for everyone, we all have our preferences. But this one is *much* better than the previous version, as far as I'm concerned. No contest. Not everyone likes the kind of games I like, and no, I'm not obligated to care if they do or not. I'm not a game developer trying to hit a certain market, it's not my job to care about anything except whether I enjoy it, and want to keep playing.

Speaking of massively popular games, how's FarmVille doing?

Oh, ****. I don't think I've harvested my strawberry patch since 2010.

Benis originally posted this link: http://www.trafficestimate.com/whatifsports.com

And I think this thread is about as Freudian as it gets considering this thread originally concerned only a single dynasty team.

But WIS has lost roughly 36% of their monthly traffic over the course of the last year. That over 1/3 of it's entire traffic!!!

Posted by pkoopman on 4/20/2017 9:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 12:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by pkoopman on 4/18/2017 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 10:31:00 PM (view original):
There's no hoping for anything. I'm just stating a fact and using an appropriate and relevant example. I'm glad to see as usual, when you see facts, you consider it whining.

You aren't stating a fact, you are using a cherry-picked factoid of questionable significance (seeming short-term reduction in world populations) and presenting it as validation for your own preferences. The fact is that while people did leave, as is always expected with significant tech/platform updates, it has also started attracting and retaining new users again; fact is that while some clearly still pine for the days when you could clearly tell when you were "ahead", and recruiting was as simple as staying out of battles with higher prestige teams with more openings, many others are enjoying the hell out of 3.0, the increased battles, and the increased fluidity.

The fact is, you are still whining, clelarly upset that your opinions and preferences aren't more significant to more people.

Not sure how it's questionable. World populations have significantly decreased. There is nothing cherry picked about it. Guys like you talked about how the new game would drive in new players in droves. I'd like to see your evidence of attracting and retaining new users. Are you talking about the ghosted DIII programs from FREEHD? How many new users do we have, and how long are they planning to stay? If there was a cherry picked fact based on short term data, your assertion is it. Losing 100+ season coaches so you can gain 1-2 coaches who might stay 5 seasons is a failure.

I don't need validation. World populations make the real statement. I don't need my opinion to be more significant to more people. Again world populations speak volumes and a large population of the forum would support the statement.

Again let me clarify for you. I'm not holding onto any rollback hopes, but there's frustration when they wasted time scrapping a system that was not the issue. The same complaints people had then, people still have now. Instead of using that time to create an inferior system, they should have used it to fix design flaws in the game. If they are going to waste time revamping the system for this new, bigger, better update, then they should be committed to actually making real improvements and providing the necessary support to make their update work.

You're making up conversations. I certainly never said anything like "attract new players in droves", and I don't recall that from anyone except people like you who have always insisted that traffic must be the barometer. What I've said is that internet fantasy sports-based simulations are a very niche market, and this site was *never* going to get all that big and still retain a compelling game for its niche market. I also said that the game already had a serious retention problem for new users. I also said the only people who had a good view of the interest and bottom line of the operation are WIS employees.

I'm not compelled to like or dislike any game because of any criteria apart from actual gameplay. I like 3.0 a *lot* more than the previous version. That's not true for everyone, and a lot of the guys who ran (not necessarily paid for, remember, but ran) a dozen teams didn't like the changes. I don't care what other people like. If I enjoy it, I'll keep playing. If I don't, I won't. Argumentation into things you have neither good vision, understanding, or control over, like site traffic, or total world populations, is a waste of time.

Your biggest miss in this entire thing is that you like the new game and don't want changes, but unfortunately, traffic is a barometer, virtually the only barometer we have to measure the current success of the game. You forget this is a business who's ultimate goal is to bring in new customers and make money from as many customers as possible, not keep pkoopman/shoe3 happy. If 5 people think one game is the greatest thing on earth, and 100 people think a different game is better, then the 5 are in the minority, and the 100 (traffic) should be your target audience (if you want to make money).

You state it is niche, which means its going to be difficult to bring in new people which of course is going to lead to population stagnation. Our stagnation was not a result of a bad game (although there were improvements that should have been made), but of poor advertising and as you said, a niche market. If you start out with a 2500 coaches across all worlds, and end up with only 1500 with no intention or hope of replacing that 1000 coaches or a plan to increase revenue in some other form (like raising prices), then you have failed as a business.

You can keep talking about people who played for free and ran, but you miss the point that by those guys leaving, someone else is now playing for free, and less people overall are playing which means less money for WIS.

Posted by Benis on 4/20/2017 7:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 12:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by pkoopman on 4/18/2017 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 10:31:00 PM (view original):
There's no hoping for anything. I'm just stating a fact and using an appropriate and relevant example. I'm glad to see as usual, when you see facts, you consider it whining.

You aren't stating a fact, you are using a cherry-picked factoid of questionable significance (seeming short-term reduction in world populations) and presenting it as validation for your own preferences. The fact is that while people did leave, as is always expected with significant tech/platform updates, it has also started attracting and retaining new users again; fact is that while some clearly still pine for the days when you could clearly tell when you were "ahead", and recruiting was as simple as staying out of battles with higher prestige teams with more openings, many others are enjoying the hell out of 3.0, the increased battles, and the increased fluidity.

The fact is, you are still whining, clelarly upset that your opinions and preferences aren't more significant to more people.

Not sure how it's questionable. World populations have significantly decreased. There is nothing cherry picked about it. Guys like you talked about how the new game would drive in new players in droves. I'd like to see your evidence of attracting and retaining new users. Are you talking about the ghosted DIII programs from FREEHD? How many new users do we have, and how long are they planning to stay? If there was a cherry picked fact based on short term data, your assertion is it. Losing 100+ season coaches so you can gain 1-2 coaches who might stay 5 seasons is a failure.

I don't need validation. World populations make the real statement. I don't need my opinion to be more significant to more people. Again world populations speak volumes and a large population of the forum would support the statement.

Again let me clarify for you. I'm not holding onto any rollback hopes, but there's frustration when they wasted time scrapping a system that was not the issue. The same complaints people had then, people still have now. Instead of using that time to create an inferior system, they should have used it to fix design flaws in the game. If they are going to waste time revamping the system for this new, bigger, better update, then they should be committed to actually making real improvements and providing the necessary support to make their update work.

Poncho, you're clearly wrong. Everything is going GREAT!

http://www.trafficestimate.com/whatifsports.com

Great post Benis. If this doesn't make it obvious to some people that there is a problem, then nothing will. Some people have dug their heels in so deep in support of the current game that they don't know which way is up.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/20/2017 7:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 7:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/20/2017 6:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/19/2017 11:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Breaking them would benefit me, and everyone I assume, but, if I was WifS, I wouldn't do it. Because of this:

User 1 relinquishes the job
Users 1 and 2 apply for the job
User 2 is more qualified than User 1, but neither are sufficiently qualified
The gig goes to a sim

If they now give the gig to user 1, who (unjustifiably or not) is less qualified than user 2, then i can see why it would upset user 2. "hey, i got rejected from this job and took a worse post - but i have a better resume than the coach who you gave the job to!"


Without question, this would happen every season in every world and, quite possibly, multiple times. CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related and, undoubtedly, would make the wrong call, in someone's mind, every time. Can of worms I wouldn't open.

They should have plenty of time, because once they rolled out 3.0, they paid attention for about 2 weeks and basically abandoned the game. There was more WIS interaction when every world was loaded than there is now or in many years for that matter.

Neither of us know how much time they have. Only one of us is pretending that we do.

Funny, because only one of us pretended to know how much time they would spend restoring multiple users to teams every season that they wouldn't have time for anything else HD related. Sounds a lot like you are pretending to know how much time they have. Me on the other hand realize they had time to create 3.0, so they should have time to maintain it at a bare minimum. After driving out a large portion of the customer base, they should have more time to commit the users.

Why don't you tell me all the evidence that supports how often users are asking WIS to restore them to a team they forgot to renew on. I'd be willing to bet it's not nearly as often as you think, and likely doesn't take nearly as much time as you're assuming.

I didn't pretend they didn't have time. I stated, plainly, that it's a precedent they didn't want to set. It may have been due to time, headaches, simply sticking to the list guidelines, etc, etc.

Reading comprehension, bro.

Or, at the very least, assuming you did understand what I said, argue what I said not what you wish I'd said.

Let's agree to disagree on your statement, because your exact words were, "CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related". If I misunderstood your intention, then fine, but those are the words you said, not the words I "wish you said".

Internet statements are prone to exaggeration. I wouldn't do it if were them because of the ripple effects. It could become very time-consuming.

Plus, really, I was just arguing your whining "They don't pay attention to us anymore!!!!"

Internet statements are prone to exaggeration when you comment, but are absolute and observed when I comment. Glad to know you care so much. I apologize if I don't want to settle for a mediocre product. Funny part is you stated you don't like to argue, but only comment to argue with people.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 4/20/2017 8:32:00 PM (view original):
Benis originally posted this link: http://www.trafficestimate.com/whatifsports.com

And I think this thread is about as Freudian as it gets considering this thread originally concerned only a single dynasty team.

But WIS has lost roughly 36% of their monthly traffic over the course of the last year. That over 1/3 of it's entire traffic!!!

I do believe upon the release of 3.0 that I stated 30-35%. It'll be interesting to see where we stand another year from now.

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 8:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by nachopuzzle on 4/20/2017 8:32:00 PM (view original):
Benis originally posted this link: http://www.trafficestimate.com/whatifsports.com

And I think this thread is about as Freudian as it gets considering this thread originally concerned only a single dynasty team.

But WIS has lost roughly 36% of their monthly traffic over the course of the last year. That over 1/3 of it's entire traffic!!!

I do believe upon the release of 3.0 that I stated 30-35%. It'll be interesting to see where we stand another year from now.

Yeah, but the current angle on that graph didn't look promising whatsoever...

Posted by colonels19 on 4/18/2017 8:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 6:54:00 PM (view original):
What I'm not doing is begging people to look at my site while playing free games so I can post. Can you say the same?

Begging? Free? Do you know how this works?

If by "begging" and "free" he actually meant "giving away WIS gift certificates" and "having paid to post here" then, technically yes, he knows exactly how it works.

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 8:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pkoopman on 4/20/2017 9:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 12:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by pkoopman on 4/18/2017 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 10:31:00 PM (view original):
There's no hoping for anything. I'm just stating a fact and using an appropriate and relevant example. I'm glad to see as usual, when you see facts, you consider it whining.

You aren't stating a fact, you are using a cherry-picked factoid of questionable significance (seeming short-term reduction in world populations) and presenting it as validation for your own preferences. The fact is that while people did leave, as is always expected with significant tech/platform updates, it has also started attracting and retaining new users again; fact is that while some clearly still pine for the days when you could clearly tell when you were "ahead", and recruiting was as simple as staying out of battles with higher prestige teams with more openings, many others are enjoying the hell out of 3.0, the increased battles, and the increased fluidity.

The fact is, you are still whining, clelarly upset that your opinions and preferences aren't more significant to more people.

Not sure how it's questionable. World populations have significantly decreased. There is nothing cherry picked about it. Guys like you talked about how the new game would drive in new players in droves. I'd like to see your evidence of attracting and retaining new users. Are you talking about the ghosted DIII programs from FREEHD? How many new users do we have, and how long are they planning to stay? If there was a cherry picked fact based on short term data, your assertion is it. Losing 100+ season coaches so you can gain 1-2 coaches who might stay 5 seasons is a failure.

I don't need validation. World populations make the real statement. I don't need my opinion to be more significant to more people. Again world populations speak volumes and a large population of the forum would support the statement.

Again let me clarify for you. I'm not holding onto any rollback hopes, but there's frustration when they wasted time scrapping a system that was not the issue. The same complaints people had then, people still have now. Instead of using that time to create an inferior system, they should have used it to fix design flaws in the game. If they are going to waste time revamping the system for this new, bigger, better update, then they should be committed to actually making real improvements and providing the necessary support to make their update work.

You're making up conversations. I certainly never said anything like "attract new players in droves", and I don't recall that from anyone except people like you who have always insisted that traffic must be the barometer. What I've said is that internet fantasy sports-based simulations are a very niche market, and this site was *never* going to get all that big and still retain a compelling game for its niche market. I also said that the game already had a serious retention problem for new users. I also said the only people who had a good view of the interest and bottom line of the operation are WIS employees.

I'm not compelled to like or dislike any game because of any criteria apart from actual gameplay. I like 3.0 a *lot* more than the previous version. That's not true for everyone, and a lot of the guys who ran (not necessarily paid for, remember, but ran) a dozen teams didn't like the changes. I don't care what other people like. If I enjoy it, I'll keep playing. If I don't, I won't. Argumentation into things you have neither good vision, understanding, or control over, like site traffic, or total world populations, is a waste of time.

Your biggest miss in this entire thing is that you like the new game and don't want changes, but unfortunately, traffic is a barometer, virtually the only barometer we have to measure the current success of the game. You forget this is a business who's ultimate goal is to bring in new customers and make money from as many customers as possible, not keep pkoopman/shoe3 happy. If 5 people think one game is the greatest thing on earth, and 100 people think a different game is better, then the 5 are in the minority, and the 100 (traffic) should be your target audience (if you want to make money).

You state it is niche, which means its going to be difficult to bring in new people which of course is going to lead to population stagnation. Our stagnation was not a result of a bad game (although there were improvements that should have been made), but of poor advertising and as you said, a niche market. If you start out with a 2500 coaches across all worlds, and end up with only 1500 with no intention or hope of replacing that 1000 coaches or a plan to increase revenue in some other form (like raising prices), then you have failed as a business.

You can keep talking about people who played for free and ran, but you miss the point that by those guys leaving, someone else is now playing for free, and less people overall are playing which means less money for WIS.

No, traffic is not a barometer of how successful the game is, not from a consumer perspective. You're the guy hanging out in U2 fan forums telling everyone how they suck now, because look, they're not selling as many albums as they did in the 80s.

So again, how is FarmVille doing these days?

Stop pretending you're a shareholder. You're not. You don't have vision or understanding into WIS bottom line.

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 8:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/20/2017 7:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 7:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/20/2017 6:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/19/2017 11:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Breaking them would benefit me, and everyone I assume, but, if I was WifS, I wouldn't do it. Because of this:

User 1 relinquishes the job
Users 1 and 2 apply for the job
User 2 is more qualified than User 1, but neither are sufficiently qualified
The gig goes to a sim

If they now give the gig to user 1, who (unjustifiably or not) is less qualified than user 2, then i can see why it would upset user 2. "hey, i got rejected from this job and took a worse post - but i have a better resume than the coach who you gave the job to!"


Without question, this would happen every season in every world and, quite possibly, multiple times. CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related and, undoubtedly, would make the wrong call, in someone's mind, every time. Can of worms I wouldn't open.

They should have plenty of time, because once they rolled out 3.0, they paid attention for about 2 weeks and basically abandoned the game. There was more WIS interaction when every world was loaded than there is now or in many years for that matter.

Neither of us know how much time they have. Only one of us is pretending that we do.

Funny, because only one of us pretended to know how much time they would spend restoring multiple users to teams every season that they wouldn't have time for anything else HD related. Sounds a lot like you are pretending to know how much time they have. Me on the other hand realize they had time to create 3.0, so they should have time to maintain it at a bare minimum. After driving out a large portion of the customer base, they should have more time to commit the users.

Why don't you tell me all the evidence that supports how often users are asking WIS to restore them to a team they forgot to renew on. I'd be willing to bet it's not nearly as often as you think, and likely doesn't take nearly as much time as you're assuming.

I didn't pretend they didn't have time. I stated, plainly, that it's a precedent they didn't want to set. It may have been due to time, headaches, simply sticking to the list guidelines, etc, etc.

Reading comprehension, bro.

Or, at the very least, assuming you did understand what I said, argue what I said not what you wish I'd said.

Let's agree to disagree on your statement, because your exact words were, "CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related". If I misunderstood your intention, then fine, but those are the words you said, not the words I "wish you said".

Internet statements are prone to exaggeration. I wouldn't do it if were them because of the ripple effects. It could become very time-consuming.

Plus, really, I was just arguing your whining "They don't pay attention to us anymore!!!!"

Internet statements are prone to exaggeration when you comment, but are absolute and observed when I comment. Glad to know you care so much. I apologize if I don't want to settle for a mediocre product. Funny part is you stated you don't like to argue, but only comment to argue with people.

Meh, I probably don't take the forums as seriously as most. Especially those who constantly hope I'll say something they can report.

Here's how I handle a mediocre product: I don't use it. Works wonders.

Finally, I post plenty. More often than not, it's to break up this series of posts:
The changes suck.
Yup.
Yup.
Well said.
Yup.
+1.
+1
Yup

They ruined the game.
Yup
+1
Well said.

You seem to take it very seriously 90% of the time.

Looks like another site switched to 3.0 around the same time.

http://www.trafficestimate.com/youporn.com

You guys take me seriously 90% of the time. That's way too much. But, as I've said before, there are some tender souls in HD that just plain get their feelings hurt way too easily. It's funny sad.

It seems like the other way around usually. You fly off the handle often. Swearing and calling people names. Doesn't seem like someone who doesn't take things seriously to me.