I assume you're addressing me. I didn't say people quit because 3.0 made something unfair.

I'm saying, if you cap D3 now, schools heavy with low level D1 players in the last season before the change will have a decided advantage.

And some will quit because they know they can't compete for 3-4 seasons.

It's a non-problem now with half a dozen vocal users making as if it's a real issue.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 9/25/2017 3:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 9/25/2017 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 9/25/2017 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 9/25/2017 10:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2017 8:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 9/25/2017 7:39:00 AM (view original):
I think D2/D3 is a level playing field. In 3.0. Just need to cap so you don't let niche location get better recruits that are contested in other areas where there are more D1 teams.

The more D1 teams in a world, the tougher it gets for starting programs. Especially badly located ones. I am building Alabama in a full sec with UAB being a B and Southern Illinois being a B- and I am contested on all near recruits. Out of state recruiting is suicide because it's not $ well spent, internationals, except low stars one is also a bad strat since it needs too much ap and make you strategy one directional. Make at a distance recruiting cheaper by 50 % and want to play far a real kicker that gives a way better advantage.

The "problem" with capping D2/D3 at this point is the next 3-4 seasons. You'll have these low level D1 players finishing their careers and dominating the FR/SO/JR classes from D3 only.

You essentially kill D2/D3 for three seasons. People quit and don't come back.

I disagree. We had the we situation in Pheland and all survived D1. It's tough for those coming in but not a reason to quit.

Yeah, this is no different than when tarek/Seble lowered the ratings on all new recruits because there were too many DI teams with all 90+ rated rosters. Version 3.0 caused more people to leave than this talent adjustment.

Disagree with making distance cheaper than it already is. This was already toned down in 3.0 and doesn't need a second cut. Find recruits that match your preferences now .

At a distance, it does not work... You are still unable to compete. But say I am Duke, I want an LA Kid... no way I can't compete.

That's not true. Chapel at Hawaii in Iba is bringing in talent from all over the mainland now...he's battling for them and winning. Being a long time Hawaii coach, I'm amazed he's pulling it off so regularly but even I pulled in the #11 PG out of Alabama, beating Alabama and Auburn in a three way battle. It can be done at distance. It's a matter of skill and will.

Not true. It's a matter of numbers.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2017 3:42:00 PM (view original):
Having not played D1 I'm sure I don't understand but, everything else being equal, wouldn't Duke have the advantage over UCLA on an LA kid if his preference was "Far from home"? Assuming I'm correct, having not played D1 in 3.0 I can't be sure, if both schools put in max effort, wouldn't take be favored in the dreaded "dice roll"? Having not played D1 in 3.0 I don't know but wouldn't it just simply be more expensive for Duke to put in same effort as UCLA on LA kid?

zorzii? Are these the numbers you're talking about?

Posted by mbriese on 9/25/2017 4:00:00 PM (view original):
I started reading this topic on the first page, skipped ahead a few pages, skipped ahead a few more - it's all the same crap.

Mike: "I'm going to stand pat on a bold statement that I know people will disagree with! Somebody argue with me!!"
Others: "Oh my gosh Mike, you have no idea what you're talking about, allow me to inform you on allll of the things that I know so much more about than you."
Mike: "Really? I'm going to oversimplify your point, twisting the rhetoric to make it seem as though I'm right! Muahahaha, argue forever!"
Others: "Ugh, arguing with Mike is the worst! I better keep doing it for 15 ******* pages"

I'll say this actually on the topic, though: D1 is much harder than I anticipated. I've recruited a few classes with both of my teams and still don't anticipate being anywhere close to competitive. I'm in non-B6 conferences and I'm having trouble competing within my own conference. It might just be that I suck at this, but either way I'm having fun with the learning curve.

Well said. +1.

I think location is important but not nearly as important as Zorzii thinks it is. I was curious about how far away my players were from NMSU. My players aren't really that close to my school. So I dunno.

Luka Zuclich	5,600
Hector Rodriguez	2,690
Lonnie Scribner	614
Steven Skinner	224
Corey Keefer	680
Billy Bowers	825
Corey Vitiello	770
Carlos Gibson	1630
Edward Perry	5
Neville Krause	350
Corey Johannsen	710
Howard Sterling	620
Lloyd Baity	1175
David Jordan	185

Posted by zorzii on 9/25/2017 4:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 9/25/2017 3:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 9/25/2017 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 9/25/2017 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 9/25/2017 10:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2017 8:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 9/25/2017 7:39:00 AM (view original):
I think D2/D3 is a level playing field. In 3.0. Just need to cap so you don't let niche location get better recruits that are contested in other areas where there are more D1 teams.

The more D1 teams in a world, the tougher it gets for starting programs. Especially badly located ones. I am building Alabama in a full sec with UAB being a B and Southern Illinois being a B- and I am contested on all near recruits. Out of state recruiting is suicide because it's not $ well spent, internationals, except low stars one is also a bad strat since it needs too much ap and make you strategy one directional. Make at a distance recruiting cheaper by 50 % and want to play far a real kicker that gives a way better advantage.

The "problem" with capping D2/D3 at this point is the next 3-4 seasons. You'll have these low level D1 players finishing their careers and dominating the FR/SO/JR classes from D3 only.

You essentially kill D2/D3 for three seasons. People quit and don't come back.

I disagree. We had the we situation in Pheland and all survived D1. It's tough for those coming in but not a reason to quit.

Yeah, this is no different than when tarek/Seble lowered the ratings on all new recruits because there were too many DI teams with all 90+ rated rosters. Version 3.0 caused more people to leave than this talent adjustment.

Disagree with making distance cheaper than it already is. This was already toned down in 3.0 and doesn't need a second cut. Find recruits that match your preferences now .

At a distance, it does not work... You are still unable to compete. But say I am Duke, I want an LA Kid... no way I can't compete.

That's not true. Chapel at Hawaii in Iba is bringing in talent from all over the mainland now...he's battling for them and winning. Being a long time Hawaii coach, I'm amazed he's pulling it off so regularly but even I pulled in the #11 PG out of Alabama, beating Alabama and Auburn in a three way battle. It can be done at distance. It's a matter of skill and will.

Not true. It's a matter of numbers.

If Hawaii can recruit, you can too. It's a matter of skill.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2017 4:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2017 3:42:00 PM (view original):
Having not played D1 I'm sure I don't understand but, everything else being equal, wouldn't Duke have the advantage over UCLA on an LA kid if his preference was "Far from home"? Assuming I'm correct, having not played D1 in 3.0 I can't be sure, if both schools put in max effort, wouldn't take be favored in the dreaded "dice roll"? Having not played D1 in 3.0 I don't know but wouldn't it just simply be more expensive for Duke to put in same effort as UCLA on LA kid?

zorzii? Are these the numbers you're talking about?

Yep. That would destroy Duke recruiting even with the wants to play far at vg.

You make no sense. Assuming you have the budget you would be a fav for any California recruit who wants to play far from home. That is indisputable.

Mbriese-thanks for stating what several have others have already said throughout this thread. D1 recruiting is different and it's harder. Maybe we've done a poor job of explaining why this is or maybe the detractors just don't want to believe it. But for those that continue saying D1 is no different than D2 or D3 well, here's yet another person stating it's definitely tougher than the lower levels.

Sigh. I play in a full D3 conference and a virtually empty D2 conference(5 users). D3 is more difficult because we're always running across one another(limited budgets, northeast schools, etc). So D1, I imagine, is "more difficult" in your mind because you compete for recruits. As I told benis a dozen pages ago, I "dice roll" for a recruit or two every season at D3. I don't think I've had to do that at D2 because of bigger budget and fewer competing human schools in my area.

FWIW, I'm not sure battling for players at D3 is the best idea. But people playing in full conferences tend to be more competitive than those who play 24 games against SIMAI every season on their way to their 18th straight conference championship. So they don't back away from a fight quite as quickly.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2017 7:37:00 PM (view original):
Sigh. I play in a full D3 conference and a virtually empty D2 conference(5 users). D3 is more difficult because we're always running across one another(limited budgets, northeast schools, etc). So D1, I imagine, is "more difficult" in your mind because you compete for recruits. As I told benis a dozen pages ago, I "dice roll" for a recruit or two every season at D3. I don't think I've had to do that at D2 because of bigger budget and fewer competing human schools in my area.

Break apart scouting from recruiting.
Scouting more difficult at DIII due to limited budget. Recruiting not.

Agree?

Somewhat. You have to be very careful with scouting dollars in D3 because they're really limited. You can get pinned in a corner. And perhaps that's why I'm finding recruiting in D3 more taxing than I am in D2. Since our conference is full, and none of us have a big bucket of scouting money, we're forced to battle for recruits as we cross paths too frequently. In my D2, with much more scouting money and far fewer nearby competitors, I tend to just avoid battles by scouting further out when necessary.

This is why I think I tend to believe D1 isn't like comparing oranges and goats with my D3 experience. If you want a top player in D1, you have to fight for him. No one is walking away. And, to be fair, losing said top player is a bigger blow. The reason I'm OK battling for players in D3 is because my back-up plan can be better. If I want the #103 SG, and lose a fight for him, I could "settle" for #168. Not as good but not a program crusher. If I'm fighting for the #3 SG in D1, odds are my absolute best back-up plan is the #103 SG that my schlub D3 covets. HUGE difference.

Too long but to summarize, I don't think D1 recruiting is really that different. You want the best you can get for the least amount of resources but losing a battle is far worse.

I'll add that there are probably nuances that I don't know about in D1 recruiting but no one has brought them up at this point. That said, I'll be D1 in Rupp in a couple of seasons and, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. I've been wrong before and I expect I'll be wrong again. The world won't end.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2017 7:37:00 PM (view original):
Sigh. I play in a full D3 conference and a virtually empty D2 conference(5 users). D3 is more difficult because we're always running across one another(limited budgets, northeast schools, etc). So D1, I imagine, is "more difficult" in your mind because you compete for recruits. As I told benis a dozen pages ago, I "dice roll" for a recruit or two every season at D3. I don't think I've had to do that at D2 because of bigger budget and fewer competing human schools in my area.

I play in a D3 conference that is significantly better than LE.

D1 is more challenging.