Practice Minutes for IQ Topic

ever since I started HD, I've flirted with the idea of running HCP/M2M. I've tried it for about 2 seasons maybe 3 times, and it's been successful 1 time at D3 (and a half at D1,the one right now not sure if it's successful yet, i mean it is but not sustainable) just because of right timing with guys knowing both IQs etc coming in. I'm leaning towards sticking with a full court press again after this season (at Sacramento State in Wooden), but not sure yet, my friend Trail said he'd never do the HCP at D2 or D3 but would do it at D1 because of guys coming in with high ratings, not needing as much improvement so I could put it at IQ. BASICALLY, my question is, does anyone know what the diminishing returns number is for IQ Minutes (if there is one), I've heard 15, 20, 25, none, so I was curious about that. If it's 15 I'm sticking w HCP, if it's 20 maybe, but if it's more I'm reverting back to FCP. Anyone is welcome to chime in. Thanks!
9/28/2017 12:36 PM
Every veteran on this board has said 20-25 minutes in O/D sets.
9/28/2017 1:27 PM
Zemedlin, I usually do 20. However, if you want to recruit a lot of high starting rating low potential players, DI is a great place to try it out.
9/28/2017 2:13 PM
I've always thought anything above 25 starts to hit diminishing returns. Check the Dev chats, I think it was addressed specifically on one of those from back in the day.
9/28/2017 3:03 PM
25 is the max before diminishing returns kick in for team O/D. 20 is where it kicks in for the individual skill areas.
9/28/2017 3:41 PM
Sweet, all of these were helpful. I had tried to find it earlier to confirm it was 25 and it seems there's a lot of mixed opinions but I'm going to trust that. Just if it was 15 by chance I was going to keep my expirement going longer
9/28/2017 4:13 PM
keep in mind, diminishing returns dont mean zero returns. I operate on the assumption that the 26th minute must be say 95% ish as good as the 20th

there are times when the roster will make more or less IQ mins the best path
9/28/2017 5:54 PM
I started doing 23 minutes OFF and DEF. My Knight world team is probably the best indicator of how that goes. Had a guy hit A+ at the end of junior year, so it’s been a success.
9/28/2017 6:59 PM
Wow that's awesome. Yeah especially with running a press we'll need guys to really know the D IQ, so I'm going to end up Reverting back to FCP I'm pretty sure once my juniors who know both decently are gone
9/29/2017 2:22 AM
Diminishing returns kicks in much quicker that what has been mentioned. Probably lower than 15, definitely before 20-25. There really isn't a doubt in my mind that 30 practices of 10 minutes will result in slightly more gain than 20 practices of 15 minutes.

As mentioned, it isn't really noticeable until you get past 20+. Once you get over 25 I'd guess the loss is closer to 40% per minute lost.
But those extra minutes still bring a return. The more time practiced, the quicker the improvement.

Rough estimates:
15 minutes of practice returns about 14.8 minutes of gain (4% loss of minutes 11-15)
20 minutes of practice returns about 19.3 minutes of gain (10% loss of minutes 16-20)
25 minutes of practice returns about 23.0 minutes of gain (25% loss of minutes 21-25)
30 minutes of practice returns about 25.8 minutes of gain (45% loss of minutes 26-30)
9/29/2017 10:39 AM (edited)
Posted by oldwarrior on 9/29/2017 10:39:00 AM (view original):
Diminishing returns kicks in much quicker that what has been mentioned. Probably lower than 15, definitely before 20-25. There really isn't a doubt in my mind that 30 practices of 10 minutes will result in slightly more gain than 20 practices of 15 minutes.

As mentioned, it isn't really noticeable until you get past 20+. Once you get over 25 I'd guess the loss is closer to 40% per minute lost.
But those extra minutes still bring a return. The more time practiced, the quicker the improvement.

Rough estimates:
15 minutes of practice returns about 14.8 minutes of gain (4% loss of minutes 11-15)
20 minutes of practice returns about 19.3 minutes of gain (10% loss of minutes 16-20)
25 minutes of practice returns about 23.0 minutes of gain (25% loss of minutes 21-25)
30 minutes of practice returns about 25.8 minutes of gain (45% loss of minutes 26-30)
I never thought the high end loss was that severe. I once used 50/0 for an entire season, I felt I got 'nearly' two season of improvement (I'd say 'all' but that probably would just feed a frenzy of dispute) from my 50 over the normal 25. I seem to recall the usual or expected growth is F to B- to B+ for two seasons of 25 minutes of practice time, and not all of my players got to B+ but some did. I still do this (40 or 50 minutes of practice) quite often when I change defenses (which lately is quite common - LOL). I feel (who knows, I might be crazy), that I get a full season of improvement in half a year doing this.
9/29/2017 2:01 PM
Posted by oldresorter on 9/29/2017 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oldwarrior on 9/29/2017 10:39:00 AM (view original):
Diminishing returns kicks in much quicker that what has been mentioned. Probably lower than 15, definitely before 20-25. There really isn't a doubt in my mind that 30 practices of 10 minutes will result in slightly more gain than 20 practices of 15 minutes.

As mentioned, it isn't really noticeable until you get past 20+. Once you get over 25 I'd guess the loss is closer to 40% per minute lost.
But those extra minutes still bring a return. The more time practiced, the quicker the improvement.

Rough estimates:
15 minutes of practice returns about 14.8 minutes of gain (4% loss of minutes 11-15)
20 minutes of practice returns about 19.3 minutes of gain (10% loss of minutes 16-20)
25 minutes of practice returns about 23.0 minutes of gain (25% loss of minutes 21-25)
30 minutes of practice returns about 25.8 minutes of gain (45% loss of minutes 26-30)
I never thought the high end loss was that severe. I once used 50/0 for an entire season, I felt I got 'nearly' two season of improvement (I'd say 'all' but that probably would just feed a frenzy of dispute) from my 50 over the normal 25. I seem to recall the usual or expected growth is F to B- to B+ for two seasons of 25 minutes of practice time, and not all of my players got to B+ but some did. I still do this (40 or 50 minutes of practice) quite often when I change defenses (which lately is quite common - LOL). I feel (who knows, I might be crazy), that I get a full season of improvement in half a year doing this.
I agree, OR. I don't do it often because I'm usually recruiting project players that need too much time devoted to attributes but when I have used huge minutes to IQ in the past, I didn't notice a 45% or worse drop off.
9/29/2017 2:41 PM
I have a fairly large spreadsheet with practice minutes and IQ. As Charles Barkley said, "I may be wrong, but I'm not"

Using only players on that list that practiced 20 minutes as a baseline (about 1400 players) and assuming a typical freshman = 3.0 gpa, 50 WE, 15+ minutes playing time: At 20 minutes per practice, fewer than 1600 minutes/80 practices should get you to an A-.

At 34 practices, 50 minutes per practice would be 1700 minutes per season. So at 50 minutes per practice a typical player should reach A- with 2-3 practices remaining in the first season. Every minute spent after that 31st practice until a recruit reaches A-, were minutes lost to diminishing returns.

I've never used 50 minutes, but have gone 40 minutes multiple times. I think 40 minutes equals less than 34 minutes of gain (when 20 minutes is used as a baseline).
9/30/2017 9:36 AM
15 minutes for veteran teams of 9+ upperclassmen
20 for team of 6-8 upperclassmen
25 for team of 5 or less upperclassmen

Vary those numbers based on OF/DEF, personal preference, style of play (uptempo/slowdown), and need for minutes at other skills.
9/30/2017 10:53 AM
Posted by oldwarrior on 9/30/2017 9:36:00 AM (view original):
I have a fairly large spreadsheet with practice minutes and IQ. As Charles Barkley said, "I may be wrong, but I'm not"

Using only players on that list that practiced 20 minutes as a baseline (about 1400 players) and assuming a typical freshman = 3.0 gpa, 50 WE, 15+ minutes playing time: At 20 minutes per practice, fewer than 1600 minutes/80 practices should get you to an A-.

At 34 practices, 50 minutes per practice would be 1700 minutes per season. So at 50 minutes per practice a typical player should reach A- with 2-3 practices remaining in the first season. Every minute spent after that 31st practice until a recruit reaches A-, were minutes lost to diminishing returns.

I've never used 50 minutes, but have gone 40 minutes multiple times. I think 40 minutes equals less than 34 minutes of gain (when 20 minutes is used as a baseline).
could be - I don't have the spreadsheet on my side nor charles barkley. What you followed up with seems even more wrong, and sort of confusing even. But oh well, no big deal. I was simply trying to help the new posters, who might benefit at times from using some high practice minutes to change defense or offense as they start off at a new shool.

i just haven't seen the sort of results you posted

I've already tried ALL 130 MINUTES short term, it seems to be about 6x more effective than 20 minutes, give or take, I really don't care the exact number, using such strategy is more about jump starting a change.

I could see some fall off being true, I was taking issue with the 45% loss of effectiveness number at 40 minutes. I see nothing like that. I often use 32 minutes of practice time by the way, something like 32 on one side and 24 on the other, to catch up a young class bad at one or the other. I probably use high practice minutes more than most coaches here, to me 20/20 is woefully under practicing.
9/30/2017 12:48 PM
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