Posted by ermackey on 11/21/2011 11:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by onside on 11/21/2011 11:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ermackey on 11/21/2011 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vick12 on 11/21/2011 11:21:00 PM (view original):
3 CV's...$3129 (Which of course cost $0 when turned down)
21 AC Scouts...$5670 (Which is "about $3k")
Seeing ermackey explain his lunacy yet again...PRICELESS!!!

CV's do sometimes cost money when they are turned down. Sometimes they don't.

That's for Home Visits, buddy, not Campus Visits.  Nice try, though.

If that is true, then I have been doing it wrong for a VERY long time. 

Posted by ermackey on 11/21/2011 9:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/21/2011 7:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jhunterz on 11/21/2011 6:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DKC on 11/21/2011 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by norbert on 11/21/2011 5:28:00 PM (view original):
There has been nothing changed for DIA and DIAA recruiting.  However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect.  There's really no way to tell how much a Sim AI has recruited a player, but not all Sim AI recruiting is the same.

this is consistent with what I've experienced.  Usually, a routine recruit turns green after accepting 12-14 campus visits from my PSU team.  However, some recruits take more effort.  These recruits are usually ranked in the top 10 at their position.  I've been observing and found a correlation between how highly ranked the recruit vs. how much effort it takes to yank him from the sim schools.

PS.  every now and then, I think there is a bug in the system where no matter how much effort you put in, the recruit remains red.  It has happened to me twice over the years.  Both times I was at a DIA elite and already sank $20K (accepted visits) and the recruit remained red.

Mine just occurred at the D1AA level and the recruit is not even a Top 200 OL like I usually go after, he is basically a backup option after I lost my others to D1A schools.  I see your point that it might be harder for the higher ranked recruit with a Sim on him, but the guy I signed is serviceable at best!  I sent a total of 21 CV's and he accepted 15 of them along with a Guaranteed Soph. start.  Is it easier to knock off 3 sims rather than just a single sim??  
Gridiron Dynasty - Football Sim Games - Recruit Profile: Greg Spencer

It is usually easier to knock them off at the beginning.

SIMs add effort on the first turn, then they add effort every turn that they have effort to add for every recruit they are recruiting.

If you get on them early, then it is easier.  If you get on them late (or knock them off late), then they have been adding effort for many turns and it is harder.

Also, usually if one SIM is alone (single SIM), it might be because he has knocked off the other 2 SIM teams who were on the recruit.  If that is the reason for one SIM, then that guy will be harder to get as the SIM still on him as put a bunch of effort to knock off the other SIMs.

Why do some SIMs put on more effort than others?  It seems that a SIM will put X effort out each turn (until they run out).  If they have been knocked off a recruit, they do not put effort in that guy any more.  If they get knocked off a significant number of recruits, then the couple of guys they have left will get much more effort.

Example:  Lets say they spend 20 CVs per turn.  If they are still on 20 recruits that is one CV per recruit.  If they have been knocked off all but 10 recruits, then they have 2 CVs for every recruit.  If they only have 5 recruits left, then that would be 4 CVs per turn per recruit.  In this scenario, you need to knock them off fast, or they will eventually bleed you dry or even overtake you.

I am about to lose this guy to a sim who is almost 800 miles away from the recruit.

11/20/11	Campus Visit	$1,043	1	$1,043
11/20/11	Campus Visit	$1,043	1	$1,043
11/20/11	Campus Visit	$1,043	1	$1,043
11/19/11	Campus Visit	$1,043	1	$1,043
11/19/11	Guaranteed Percentage of Plays - Accepted	$150	75%	$150
11/19/11	Guaranteed Starting Spot - Freshman - Accepted	$250	1	$250
11/19/11	Guaranteed Percentage of Plays - Declined	$150	75%	$150
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Guaranteed Starting Spot - Freshman - Declined	$250	1	$250
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Pending - Scholarship Offer	$100	1	$100
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/19/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	7	$1,890
11/18/11	Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach	$270	1	$270

At least you make your asst. coach earn his salary. That guy must have some serious frequent flier miles!

Posted by jhunterz on 11/21/2011 6:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DKC on 11/21/2011 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by norbert on 11/21/2011 5:28:00 PM (view original):
There has been nothing changed for DIA and DIAA recruiting.  However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect.  There's really no way to tell how much a Sim AI has recruited a player, but not all Sim AI recruiting is the same.

this is consistent with what I've experienced.  Usually, a routine recruit turns green after accepting 12-14 campus visits from my PSU team.  However, some recruits take more effort.  These recruits are usually ranked in the top 10 at their position.  I've been observing and found a correlation between how highly ranked the recruit vs. how much effort it takes to yank him from the sim schools.

PS.  every now and then, I think there is a bug in the system where no matter how much effort you put in, the recruit remains red.  It has happened to me twice over the years.  Both times I was at a DIA elite and already sank $20K (accepted visits) and the recruit remained red.

Mine just occurred at the D1AA level and the recruit is not even a Top 200 OL like I usually go after, he is basically a backup option after I lost my others to D1A schools.  I see your point that it might be harder for the higher ranked recruit with a Sim on him, but the guy I signed is serviceable at best!  I sent a total of 21 CV's and he accepted 15 of them along with a Guaranteed Soph. start.  Is it easier to knock off 3 sims rather than just a single sim??  
Gridiron Dynasty - Football Sim Games - Recruit Profile: Greg Spencer

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:49:00 AM (view original):
Now ... I do not recruit like that (all the AC Scouting visits) ... but it does have some merit.

Specifically, Scout Trips can not be refused by the recruit ... so if you are reasonably sure of an amount to turn a player yellow, it might save you cash in the long run.

I might use 10-15 CVs in Div-1A initially, expecting 4-6 to be turned down.  Sometimes all 15 get accepted and I have used more than is required to get the guy green.  In the AC Scout method, your cost is fixed and not variable (since you do not need to anticipate rejections), so you will never overspend.

Now, I am not talking about losing money that is not refunded ... I know that money is not lost on CVs.  I am talking about losing money that you spent above and beyond turning a guy green because more visits were initially accepted than anticipated.

I'm not saying that the AC Scout method is the best approach, but it does warrant some consideration as a possible approach.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Posted by ermackey on 11/21/2011 11:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by onside on 11/21/2011 11:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ermackey on 11/21/2011 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vick12 on 11/21/2011 11:21:00 PM (view original):
3 CV's...$3129 (Which of course cost $0 when turned down)
21 AC Scouts...$5670 (Which is "about $3k")
Seeing ermackey explain his lunacy yet again...PRICELESS!!!

CV's do sometimes cost money when they are turned down. Sometimes they don't.

That's for Home Visits, buddy, not Campus Visits.  Nice try, though.

If that is true, then I have been doing it wrong for a VERY long time. 

Posted by DKC on 11/22/2011 8:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:49:00 AM (view original):
Now ... I do not recruit like that (all the AC Scouting visits) ... but it does have some merit.

Specifically, Scout Trips can not be refused by the recruit ... so if you are reasonably sure of an amount to turn a player yellow, it might save you cash in the long run.

I might use 10-15 CVs in Div-1A initially, expecting 4-6 to be turned down.  Sometimes all 15 get accepted and I have used more than is required to get the guy green.  In the AC Scout method, your cost is fixed and not variable (since you do not need to anticipate rejections), so you will never overspend.

Now, I am not talking about losing money that is not refunded ... I know that money is not lost on CVs.  I am talking about losing money that you spent above and beyond turning a guy green because more visits were initially accepted than anticipated.

I'm not saying that the AC Scout method is the best approach, but it does warrant some consideration as a possible approach.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

I respectfully disagree that the aforementioned AC scout method warrants some consideration.  It is the most wasteful way of going about it, IMO.

While offering (and having them accepted) a little too many CVs is a waste of money, I would gladly have that trade off to avoid having a stubborn sim hang on and force me to spend even more money to knock it off.  At worst, it provides some padding against surprise sniping later on. 

With experience, I have learned to send just enough CVs to turn the recruit green without wasting much.  It certainly beats having to send an additional 5-7 CVs to knock off that one remaining sim.

in fact, the ideal thing for me would be to send 1 AC scout and just enough CVs to turn a recruit green.  I don't usually have the luxury of doing that in the first cycle when everyone is trying to get established.

Posted by DKC on 11/22/2011 8:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:49:00 AM (view original):
Now ... I do not recruit like that (all the AC Scouting visits) ... but it does have some merit.

Specifically, Scout Trips can not be refused by the recruit ... so if you are reasonably sure of an amount to turn a player yellow, it might save you cash in the long run.

I might use 10-15 CVs in Div-1A initially, expecting 4-6 to be turned down.  Sometimes all 15 get accepted and I have used more than is required to get the guy green.  In the AC Scout method, your cost is fixed and not variable (since you do not need to anticipate rejections), so you will never overspend.

Now, I am not talking about losing money that is not refunded ... I know that money is not lost on CVs.  I am talking about losing money that you spent above and beyond turning a guy green because more visits were initially accepted than anticipated.

I'm not saying that the AC Scout method is the best approach, but it does warrant some consideration as a possible approach.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

I respectfully disagree that the aforementioned AC scout method warrants some consideration.  It is the most wasteful way of going about it, IMO.

While offering (and having them accepted) a little too many CVs is a waste of money, I would gladly have that trade off to avoid having a stubborn sim hang on and force me to spend even more money to knock it off.  At worst, it provides some padding against surprise sniping later on. 

With experience, I have learned to send just enough CVs to turn the recruit green without wasting much.  It certainly beats having to send an additional 5-7 CVs to knock off that one remaining sim.

in fact, the ideal thing for me would be to send 1 AC scout and just enough CVs to turn a recruit green.  I don't usually have the luxury of doing that in the first cycle when everyone is trying to get established.

Posted by ermackey on 11/22/2011 1:24:00 PM (view original):
You are all missing the point. Sims are harder to beat than they have been - regardless of the method employed.