Question for those who like math. Topic

topoftheworl
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I am trying to figure what value to give current field ratings when determining a players current value.  Fielding is so contextual.  I can give you an estimate about what value player X would have as a SS vs. a 2B, but what I lack is how much more valuable is SS than 2B or CF than RF in abstract.  If guy has a 5 +, 0 -, 8 error season at SS one might value his defensive contribution as -1.8 runs.  A player at 1B that put up those same stats would have the same defensive contribution.  The question is, how much more valuable of a player is he because he can give that performance at SS than at 1b.  I don't expect any exact numbers per se, but if any one is willing to share some ideas that would be really cool. Thoughts?
12/6/2011 12:55 AM
marble26
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If your other players have good AS and AA, a catcher can do an adequate job playing 1B. Personally, I would assign SS the most weight and CF would be next.
12/6/2011 1:27 AM
topoftheworl
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Agreed, but how much difference? 5% more value, 20% more value? Your results may vary obviously, but I'd like to develop a rule of thumb.
12/6/2011 1:56 AM
maxdeardorff
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It might be useful to calculate how many net positive plays a player makes divided by the average number of net positive plays of someone else at his position multiplied by how many total plays such a player is involved in...or something of the sort.
12/6/2011 6:44 AM
bighead34
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start with tom tango's positional adjustments and tweak them as necessary to fit HBD
12/6/2011 7:58 AM
bighead34
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-17.5 DH
-12.5 1B
-7.5 LF/RF
+2.5 CF/2B/3B
+7.5 SS
+12.5 C
12/6/2011 7:59 AM
MikeT23
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In the IF, I'd work with assists, plus/negative plays and errors per inning.    In the OF, I'd add putouts to the equation.   Essentially, I'm just attempting to remove the plays where someone throws the ball to the player.   Numbers from my MG team.

Greg Wood

SS

0.354677

Alfredo Siqueiros

2B

0.302231

James Perry

CF

0.272537

Vic James

3B

0.249493

Felix Cashman

LF

0.189283

Pedro Romano

RF

0.167131

Hector Arias

1B

0.077844


Nothing shocking there.    SS is about 4.5 times more important than 1B.   2B is 3.8 times more important than 1B.    And so on.  I wouldn't even attempt to put catching into the equation as it requires something that none of the other positions need(pitch calling).
12/6/2011 9:11 AM
MikeT23
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Changes a bit in Coop where I have a GG-quality 2B and a lesser SS/1B.  But they still run pretty much in line by position.

Neil Jefferson

2B

0.348131

Victor Melendez

SS

0.348023

Corban Dirks

3B

0.261159

Darin Cooper

CF

0.239604

Robin Petersen

LF

0.193666

Perry Turner

RF

0.175926

Brandon Gray

1B

0.056497
12/6/2011 9:19 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2011 9:11:00 AM (view original):
In the IF, I'd work with assists, plus/negative plays and errors per inning.    In the OF, I'd add putouts to the equation.   Essentially, I'm just attempting to remove the plays where someone throws the ball to the player.   Numbers from my MG team.

Greg Wood

SS

0.354677

Alfredo Siqueiros

2B

0.302231

James Perry

CF

0.272537

Vic James

3B

0.249493

Felix Cashman

LF

0.189283

Pedro Romano

RF

0.167131

Hector Arias

1B

0.077844


Nothing shocking there.    SS is about 4.5 times more important than 1B.   2B is 3.8 times more important than 1B.    And so on.  I wouldn't even attempt to put catching into the equation as it requires something that none of the other positions need(pitch calling).
Your pitching staff impacts this as well.  FB/GB, as well as K's will impact not only the number of "touches" your fielders will have, but also the distribution of the plays on the field (fly balls to the outfield vs. ground balls to the infield).
12/6/2011 9:24 AM
MikeT23
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I was looking at it on more of a percentage and just using my teams as an example.   Nonetheless, SS is the most important and 2B/CF can be debated for #2.  3B/CF could be debated for #4 and followed by LF, RF and 1B.    I think #1 and 6, 7, 8 are clear.
12/6/2011 9:55 AM
MikeT23
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On my Coop team, Dirks is probably GG-quality at 3B while Cooper is a sub-par CF. 
12/6/2011 9:55 AM
deanod
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Posted by bighead34 on 12/6/2011 7:59:00 AM (view original):
-17.5 DH
-12.5 1B
-7.5 LF/RF
+2.5 CF/2B/3B
+7.5 SS
+12.5 C
[  ] real life is the same thing as HBD

fwiw i haven't looked at it, but by far SS is the most important position just because there are like 2 above average hitters than are also above average fielders at the position per world.  compared to a 1B the difference is pretty monumental, haven't crunched the numbers but i'd imagine it's at least 30 runs.
12/6/2011 10:19 AM
deanod
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Mike, wtf are you even talking about.

12/6/2011 10:21 AM
deanod
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just ran the numbers for GAP world (1 season in 1 world SSS'ish but def gets you in the ballpark) and the SS is 41 runs more valuable than the 1B, according to the  sample.

edit: also according to the #'s, i had the 2 best SS's in the world.  yay!
12/6/2011 10:53 AM (edited)
MikeT23
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I put everything in words.    Assists+plus plays-negative plays-errors divided by innings played for IF.  Putouts+assists+plus plays-negative plays-errors divided by innings played for OF.

IOW, Greg Woods makes 3.19 plays "good isolated solo plays" per 9 while Hector Arias makes 0.70 per nine.   They're credited for good plays and deducted for bad ones.  That way, your C playing 1B with 19 negative plays is credited appropriately.   I'd say, on my MG team, that Woods' defense is worth more than 4 times as much as Arias'.

Really, I use it to compare players on my team but it works in determining who's defense is "more important" and by roughly how much.

My other 1B:

Eduardo Oliva

1B

1.232000

Hector Arias

1B

0.077844

Felix Cashman

1B

0.047619

Vic Mercado

1B

0.030534

Mercado is a butcher. 
12/6/2011 11:02 AM
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