The Closer Topic

dlmose
Posts: 311 (0)
Hall of Famer
5 7 150
Prospect
This morning during the all star game, Gary Thorne said that some stat nerd had researched the role of the closer in MLB all the way back to 1900. His findings indicate that since its inception, teams using a closer and leading going into the 9th have a 96% win pct. Teams prior to that and/or not using a closer had a 96% win pct. That's right, exactly the same. Going into the 8th the win pct. both ways was 83%. Obviously I'm not going to verify this (Thorne's word is good enough for me) but it seems to confirm the opinion of many 'round here that a closer is a waste of talent.
7/11/2012 9:04 AM
sergei91
Posts: 5950 (0)
Hall of Famer
13 2 2 275 115
Prospect
gary thorne's a ********. he used to suck being bill clement's partner during nhl games years ago
7/11/2012 9:06 AM
sergei91
Posts: 5950 (0)
Hall of Famer
13 2 2 275 115
Prospect
and i walked by him once. i was going into the boston garden (whatever name it had at the time) and he was walking out. he's a little annoying man.
7/11/2012 9:07 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
It's not a waste of talent in HBD, it usually a waste of innings.   Closers, who are usually your best short RP, might pitch 50-60 innings.   Most can handle twice that amount.   Why limit your best short RP to half his possible innings?
7/11/2012 9:08 AM
tecwrg
Posts: 18995 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 152 32 129
Prospect
Posted by dlmose on 7/11/2012 9:04:00 AM (view original):
This morning during the all star game, Gary Thorne said that some stat nerd had researched the role of the closer in MLB all the way back to 1900. His findings indicate that since its inception, teams using a closer and leading going into the 9th have a 96% win pct. Teams prior to that and/or not using a closer had a 96% win pct. That's right, exactly the same. Going into the 8th the win pct. both ways was 83%. Obviously I'm not going to verify this (Thorne's word is good enough for me) but it seems to confirm the opinion of many 'round here that a closer is a waste of talent.
I've heard the same thing in the past, pretty much the same numbers.

The bottom line is that, with rare exception, closers don't provide nearly as much value as they are given credit for.  The "save" as a statistic is pretty much a joke as it has become the tail wagging the dog in terms of how MLB managers utilize their bullpens in the late innings of games.

And as MikeT has pointed out, in HBD it's usually a wasted role as too many guys relegated to the closer roie leave too many unpitched innings on the table as they are almost always underutilized.

I've gone away from the closer role on all my HBD teams, I just put my best relievers as SuA guys.
7/11/2012 9:20 AM
tedwmoore
Posts: 323 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 81
Prospect
This is not a news flash:  the save is worthless as a measure of pitcher effectiveness but worth a lot as a measure of future salary.  High leverage situations should be handled by your best relief pitchers, whether in HBD or MLB or, I suppose, little league.   
7/11/2012 10:03 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
I think there's a mental aspect to "closing".   Not just from the pitcher or his team but from the other team.   Over the last couple of seasons, David Robertson has been just as effective as Rivera.   But do you think teams felt "We need to score one now because getting one off Robertson is gonna be tough"?  Of course, there's no such thing in HBD.
7/11/2012 10:55 AM
mchalesarmy
Posts: 1123 (0)
Veteran
20
Prospect
7/11/2012 10:58 AM
caesari
Posts: 4817 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 48 129 11
Prospect
Posted by mchalesarmy on 7/11/2012 10:58:00 AM (view original):
Guilty pleasure show. The new one was out on Monday. Only 5 episodes left.
7/11/2012 11:12 AM
a_ersberg
Posts: 1363 (0)
Hall of Famer
2 75
Prospect
People watch TNT?  Hah.  You lie!
7/11/2012 12:08 PM
caesari
Posts: 4817 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 48 129 11
Prospect
Posted by a_ersberg on 7/11/2012 12:08:00 PM (view original):
People watch TNT?  Hah.  You lie!
They know drama.
7/11/2012 12:26 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18995 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 152 32 129
Prospect
Posted by a_ersberg on 7/11/2012 12:08:00 PM (view original):
People watch TNT?  Hah.  You lie!
TNT.  Great song from this album:

7/11/2012 1:08 PM
mitchrapp
Posts: 807 (0)
Hall of Famer
106 20 14 109
Prospect
Posted by tecwrg on 7/11/2012 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by a_ersberg on 7/11/2012 12:08:00 PM (view original):
People watch TNT?  Hah.  You lie!
TNT.  Great song from this album:

oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi oi
7/11/2012 1:27 PM
mchalesarmy
Posts: 1123 (0)
Veteran
20
Prospect
HAHA

When my 8 yr old first heard that song (about 3 yrs ago?), he asked me why someone made a song about a television channel.
7/11/2012 2:17 PM
Crump123
Posts: 361 (0)
Hall of Famer
238 132
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2012 10:55:00 AM (view original):
I think there's a mental aspect to "closing".   Not just from the pitcher or his team but from the other team.   Over the last couple of seasons, David Robertson has been just as effective as Rivera.   But do you think teams felt "We need to score one now because getting one off Robertson is gonna be tough"?  Of course, there's no such thing in HBD.
Managers manage according to perception with Name guys though, Robertson could be twice the pitcher Rivera was, but the opposing manager would still justify doing something dumb, because Rivera was coming up the next inning, regardless of how well Rivera was actually performing.
7/11/2012 5:47 PM
12 Next ▸
The Closer Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.