thanks pointfwd.
and slavery was illegal in the north in the 1840s.

and sessions wants to start putting people in jail again over marijuana.......the incarceration totals with the racial inequity will skyrocket.

Oh, and the other point was Lincoln was NOT a great President. He declared war on his own people and it went on for YEARS. Destroyed more than half the country. Nice job, Mr. President.

The only people who don't think Lincoln was a great president are the loser confederate hicks scratching their nuts in South Carolina.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/9/2017 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Let's try to establish something.

None of us were affected by slavery. I don't think we have any 150 y/o people on this board. So we should be able to have a rational discussion(theoretically). In 2017, the thought of buying people and forcing them to work for you is horrendous. In 1860, slaves were property. It's a simple fact. If you want to say "Oh no they weren't!!!!", we cannot have a rational discussion.

The US government was attempting to take away property that was vital to a specific group's way to make a living. I forget what you do so let's assume the government was taking away your car(you can't get to work). Are you OK with that?

I love that your argument hinges on the idea that it was the Feds who were in the wrong when they tried to stop the southern states from owning people.

My argument does not hinge on owning people. It hinges on rushing into a war that kills 600,000+ Americans over property.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/9/2017 9:40:00 AM (view original):
My argument does not hinge on owning people. It hinges on rushing into a war that kills 600,000+ Americans over property.

What was the property?

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/9/2017 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Let's try to establish something.

None of us were affected by slavery. I don't think we have any 150 y/o people on this board. So we should be able to have a rational discussion(theoretically). In 2017, the thought of buying people and forcing them to work for you is horrendous. In 1860, slaves were property. It's a simple fact. If you want to say "Oh no they weren't!!!!", we cannot have a rational discussion.

The US government was attempting to take away property that was vital to a specific group's way to make a living. I forget what you do so let's assume the government was taking away your car(you can't get to work). Are you OK with that?

In 1860, slaves were property. Yes or no?

Because, if you force me to find out when the 13th Amendment passed, I will. But I know it was after the Civil War.

So the property was people, right?

Irrelevant. Property is property. Anyway, I think I'm done here. Your argument hinges on abolishing slavery. I'm not disagreeing with that as much as you/dino would like to believe I am. America isn't America with slavery. It HAD to be abolished.

My argument is that Lincoln rushed into war over property. The 13th Amendment abolished slavery AFTER 600,000+ Americans lost their lives because Lincoln was impatient. Maybe he wanted to be the POTUS who abolished slavery and didn't know if he could do it without war. Maybe he just wasn't very bright. Maybe he didn't care about American lives. No matter, he was a terrible President who killed more Americans than anyone in history.

Save some of your vitriol for how the US treated Native Americans.

You can try to dismiss it but the property was people.

to bad luck and everyone else..i urge you to end all communication with mike.......he is a virulent racist......i cant prevent him from speaking out but we should not respond to him...from this point on.