Posted by chrondon84 on 5/18/2018 7:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bhazlewood on 5/18/2018 5:24:00 PM (view original):
slack chat app ? There's a slack chat for GD? How come everyone doesn't know about this?

Since everyone doesn't know about this, you must be cheating because you use it.

Really?

Grasping at straws here bobby.

Chatting about a game with other players is not even close to what this app does.

Ridiculous.
The whole argument against the app has been (a) it makes up for the deficiencies of the WIS web site (or do you seriously think a cumbersome interface was a conscious design decision to weed out weaker players?) and (b) "not everyone knows about it". Well, I guarantee you less people knew about your slack chat than know about the yatzr tools. And why the need for a "secret" chat? Are you sharing player lists? I DON'T LIKE IT SO IT MUST BE CHEATING.

</sarcasm off>

You can call something "cheating" all you want - obviously the site admin (who actually gets to decide what is and isn't cheating) disagrees. Just because you repeatedly say something, joey, doesn't make it so.
5/18/2018 7:36 PM
Well duh bobby. I dont think I'm a wizard.
5/18/2018 7:42 PM
Chrondon, yatzr has great tutorials on YouTube. He goes in great detail on how to operate the tools. If you can't figure out how to use them send me a site mail.

Bagchucker and Chrondon shouldn't be left out in the dark about how to use these tools. I have faith you and bagchucker will eventually figure it out.

Some people just learn at a different pace than others.
5/18/2018 7:45 PM
Posted by bagchucker on 5/18/2018 7:07:00 PM (view original):
seeing a breakout of the teams that are on a player, not just the world multiples

please explain



ability to download in multiple threads


please explain



GPA and formation maybe i get. smart guys i can filter for or something
When a recruit is considering multiple schools, it will be listed as "multiple". With the donor feature unlocked, it will list the schools (i.e. the program shows "Harvard" "Yale" "Princeton" instead of "Multiple".)

Threads - ah let's see... trying to keep this from being too technical.. threads are basically the computer executing an instruction - in this case, the instruction to go download some data. By utilizing multiple threads, the computer can execute multiple instructions simultaneously - so multiple downloads all happening at the same time means you get the data faster. Let's assume that the program issues an instruction to "download all of the QB's at D1AA" - with single thread processing, the next position won't start downloading until the the first one is finished. With multi-threads, it would download all of the QB's while it is downloading all of the RB's and all of the WR's and all of the TE's and... well, you get the idea. I hope that explains it.
5/18/2018 7:45 PM
Trying to bring the two sides together, if only a little, surely the quickest fix and easiest fix on WIS would be an option to 'Coach CV' (or any other box on that page) more than 1 at a time or 5 in a group as it's that that takes an age. It should be easy to change the limit from 5 to no limit and at the same time change the software to consider every 1 visit as an individual visit.
The difference in time spent on this alone is massive and although it's 100% not cheating it IS the reason I continue and therefore without it I (and doubtless many others) couldn't continue
5/19/2018 3:43 AM
Posted by bhazlewood on 5/18/2018 7:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bagchucker on 5/18/2018 7:07:00 PM (view original):
seeing a breakout of the teams that are on a player, not just the world multiples

please explain



ability to download in multiple threads


please explain



GPA and formation maybe i get. smart guys i can filter for or something
When a recruit is considering multiple schools, it will be listed as "multiple". With the donor feature unlocked, it will list the schools (i.e. the program shows "Harvard" "Yale" "Princeton" instead of "Multiple".)

Threads - ah let's see... trying to keep this from being too technical.. threads are basically the computer executing an instruction - in this case, the instruction to go download some data. By utilizing multiple threads, the computer can execute multiple instructions simultaneously - so multiple downloads all happening at the same time means you get the data faster. Let's assume that the program issues an instruction to "download all of the QB's at D1AA" - with single thread processing, the next position won't start downloading until the the first one is finished. With multi-threads, it would download all of the QB's while it is downloading all of the RB's and all of the WR's and all of the TE's and... well, you get the idea. I hope that explains it.
appreciate

breakout: the sim right now shows three. your example shows three. please explain
5/19/2018 3:54 AM
Personally, I don't think Chrondon and Bagchucker really want to learn Yatzr's tool.
I think (and I don't mean this meanly, especially since I have been known to act on this myself :) they just like to stir up these boards.
Whether I am right or wrong you gotta admit they sure have accomplished this.
5/19/2018 5:39 AM
Posted by mojolad on 5/19/2018 5:39:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I don't think Chrondon and Bagchucker really want to learn Yatzr's tool.
I think (and I don't mean this meanly, especially since I have been known to act on this myself :) they just like to stir up these boards.
Whether I am right or wrong you gotta admit they sure have accomplished this.
And, just like a kid with a sh*t-a*s attitude, if we simply ignore them then they might just go away.

(side note: I hope I've inserted enough "*" into my cuss words so as to not get banned)
5/19/2018 6:59 AM
Posted by polarsi on 5/19/2018 3:43:00 AM (view original):
Trying to bring the two sides together, if only a little, surely the quickest fix and easiest fix on WIS would be an option to 'Coach CV' (or any other box on that page) more than 1 at a time or 5 in a group as it's that that takes an age. It should be easy to change the limit from 5 to no limit and at the same time change the software to consider every 1 visit as an individual visit.
The difference in time spent on this alone is massive and although it's 100% not cheating it IS the reason I continue and therefore without it I (and doubtless many others) couldn't continue
I think this is exactly the sort of thing Seble should be looking at in order to improve the base user experience for all users.

Not just because it should always be something that WIS pursues for all its games, but because (as Seble wrote earlier), yatzr's tool won't be around forever. Eventually it will be broken and either irreparable in its current state or yatzr will be unwilling/uninterested/both to bother fixing it.

In some ways this reminds me of the Basic/Advanced split in HBD for those familiar with that product. In that case, it was backwards - the Basic screen was introduced *later*, as a way for new users to not screw up a bunch of moves at once. Once a new user has a season or two under their belt, then they can engage the Advanced GM screen and do multiple moves at a time.
5/19/2018 7:04 AM
The fact that there is an app that facilitates discussion about the game outside of this forum (slack app?) is way more disturbing. Is that what Tigerpark used?

Also, I do a lot of my recruiting from my phone. Does that make people who use computers cheaters because I use technology that makes recruiting more difficult? (it's a rhetorical question and the answer is no)
5/19/2018 10:11 AM
Posted by hypnotoad on 5/19/2018 7:04:00 AM (view original):
Posted by polarsi on 5/19/2018 3:43:00 AM (view original):
Trying to bring the two sides together, if only a little, surely the quickest fix and easiest fix on WIS would be an option to 'Coach CV' (or any other box on that page) more than 1 at a time or 5 in a group as it's that that takes an age. It should be easy to change the limit from 5 to no limit and at the same time change the software to consider every 1 visit as an individual visit.
The difference in time spent on this alone is massive and although it's 100% not cheating it IS the reason I continue and therefore without it I (and doubtless many others) couldn't continue
I think this is exactly the sort of thing Seble should be looking at in order to improve the base user experience for all users.

Not just because it should always be something that WIS pursues for all its games, but because (as Seble wrote earlier), yatzr's tool won't be around forever. Eventually it will be broken and either irreparable in its current state or yatzr will be unwilling/uninterested/both to bother fixing it.

In some ways this reminds me of the Basic/Advanced split in HBD for those familiar with that product. In that case, it was backwards - the Basic screen was introduced *later*, as a way for new users to not screw up a bunch of moves at once. Once a new user has a season or two under their belt, then they can engage the Advanced GM screen and do multiple moves at a time.
hypnotoad, these 3rd Party tools are EXACTLY the kinds of things that should be incorporated into the game. I fully agree. I mentioned somewhere that the key parts of the GUESS system were incorporated into v3.0 of this game and has been a huge enhancement. We now have specific positions...but more importantly...we have the tool, BUILT INTO THE GAME, to be able to apply our own rating system to those positions. It was a huge improvement....facilitated by persons outside the game...but who were asked to provide info and concepts to the developer when the new version was being worked on. It was a WIN for everyone.
5/19/2018 1:36 PM
I play both GD and HD, but haven’t played either for very long. I like GD so well that I plan to play it for a long time. Reading this thread and looking at Yatzr’s YouTube videos has been a real eye-opener. Yatzr’s tool amazes me.

I accept the summaries by genuvar (page 1) and bdramsey71 (page 2), particularly since no one has rebutted either. I also think I understand chrondon84’s objections (summarized toward the bottom of page 3).

It seems undeniable that using Yatzr’s tool is an advantage, possibly an immense advantage. I think the arguments are compelling that the tool not only saves time but does things that cannot be done without the tool. Even some of the same things that theoretically might be done without the tool pretty obviously cannot be done within the time available to accomplish them.

It is a judgment call whether the advantage is “unfair.” That depends on two things, your definition of “unfair” and WIS’s target audience. “Unfair” can be defined as “not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice; disproportionate.” Using the tool does seem to create inequality, does seem to be disproportionate. WIS has to decide whether their game is intended for a wide cross section of the public or a subset of the public that has specialized computing abilities. This is not an either-or choice, but rather a matter of degree or range to which they want to give advantage to those with specialized abilities, and which particular abilities they want to favor. More simply put, does WIS want only computer geeks playing and succeeding at GD.

Perhaps even more simply put, people playing GD with yatzr’s tool are playing a completely different game than those playing GD without it. Two people going from point A to point B have traveled the same voyage, but it is a fact that it is not the same if one drives his car and the other walks. “Anyone can buy yatzr’s car for $10” does not change that fact.

No matter the degree of unfairness present, and I find it so great as to be alarming, I do not see it as “cheating.”

To me, the most important statement in the entire post so far is seble’s, “The strong reliance on this app suggests that the current recruiting system needs a lot of work. It tells me that this recruiting system requires too much time and effort to be successful. There's a good chance we'll overhaul it in the future.” AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! And I would add that the future he speaks of cannot come too soon.

Just my two cents.
5/19/2018 1:55 PM
nice post

kerfuffle brings the thinkers out
5/19/2018 2:40 PM
Posted by mojolad on 5/19/2018 5:39:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I don't think Chrondon and Bagchucker really want to learn Yatzr's tool.
I think (and I don't mean this meanly, especially since I have been known to act on this myself :) they just like to stir up these boards.
Whether I am right or wrong you gotta admit they sure have accomplished this.
Bagchucker doesn't have a team so honestly he wants says or cars about really doesn't matter when it comes to GD. He is just a bored old man sitting at some looking to troll the internet lol. We all gotta have dreams I guess.
5/19/2018 3:35 PM
Posted by rh32 on 5/19/2018 10:11:00 AM (view original):
The fact that there is an app that facilitates discussion about the game outside of this forum (slack app?) is way more disturbing. Is that what Tigerpark used?

Also, I do a lot of my recruiting from my phone. Does that make people who use computers cheaters because I use technology that makes recruiting more difficult? (it's a rhetorical question and the answer is no)
I created the Slack Channel for the coaches in Wilkinson to have a place to interact in a real time environment. Also wanted a better chat room for listeners to our podcast we had going on. Now it's a place that people not only talk about the game but they ask for prayers for family members going through hard time, talk about how proud they are about their kids graduating college and have the same type of discussions we are having on here.

Chrondon painted the chat in horrible light. We have knew coaches to the game get invited and ask questions and find mentors and find success and learn more then they never could have with out the chat.
5/19/2018 3:50 PM
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