Posted by gators06 on 5/18/2018 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/18/2018 2:39:00 PM (view original):
Maybe if it's a pay to play tire changing competition where half the players get the power tool, and the other half get the manual tool, and most of the second group aren't even told about the power tool.

Cool game, seble.

You mean the “tool” that is referenced multiple times on the first page of GD’s Guide to the Game in the pinned topics right above this thread that has been up for over 5 years? Yatzr’s tool is clearly available to everyone. I don’t use the game analyzer or recruiting tool and don’t care if others do. I use WIS recruit search and Google Earth for recruiting. If I had to pay for Google Earth would I be cheating? Because WIS charges money to play are they discriminating against those who don’t have money to play? Is that limiting access?

Nobody is winning any money from this game. You and a few others act like a secrect society have some inside information to win while blocking others from ANY chance at winning a simulation football game that, once again doesn’t pay out money. You guys sound very petty complaining about a computer game.

I can't prove that some GD users don't use the forums, but it seems like a safe guess.

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/18/2018 4:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gators06 on 5/18/2018 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/18/2018 2:39:00 PM (view original):
Maybe if it's a pay to play tire changing competition where half the players get the power tool, and the other half get the manual tool, and most of the second group aren't even told about the power tool.

Cool game, seble.

You mean the “tool” that is referenced multiple times on the first page of GD’s Guide to the Game in the pinned topics right above this thread that has been up for over 5 years? Yatzr’s tool is clearly available to everyone. I don’t use the game analyzer or recruiting tool and don’t care if others do. I use WIS recruit search and Google Earth for recruiting. If I had to pay for Google Earth would I be cheating? Because WIS charges money to play are they discriminating against those who don’t have money to play? Is that limiting access?

Nobody is winning any money from this game. You and a few others act like a secrect society have some inside information to win while blocking others from ANY chance at winning a simulation football game that, once again doesn’t pay out money. You guys sound very petty complaining about a computer game.

I can't prove that some GD users don't use the forums, but it seems like a safe guess.

So you are calling people cheaters based on a guess that other people don’t use the forums to access information? Wow. You summed up your position nicely. I won’t waste anymore time.

Posted by gators06 on 5/18/2018 4:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/18/2018 4:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gators06 on 5/18/2018 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/18/2018 2:39:00 PM (view original):
Maybe if it's a pay to play tire changing competition where half the players get the power tool, and the other half get the manual tool, and most of the second group aren't even told about the power tool.

Cool game, seble.

You mean the “tool” that is referenced multiple times on the first page of GD’s Guide to the Game in the pinned topics right above this thread that has been up for over 5 years? Yatzr’s tool is clearly available to everyone. I don’t use the game analyzer or recruiting tool and don’t care if others do. I use WIS recruit search and Google Earth for recruiting. If I had to pay for Google Earth would I be cheating? Because WIS charges money to play are they discriminating against those who don’t have money to play? Is that limiting access?

Nobody is winning any money from this game. You and a few others act like a secrect society have some inside information to win while blocking others from ANY chance at winning a simulation football game that, once again doesn’t pay out money. You guys sound very petty complaining about a computer game.

I can't prove that some GD users don't use the forums, but it seems like a safe guess.

So you are calling people cheaters based on a guess that other people don’t use the forums to access information? Wow. You summed up your position nicely. I won’t waste anymore time.

That's not what I said. I do hope you have a great weekend.

Posted by dukelegend on 5/18/2018 9:54:00 AM (view original):
My wife is working on a add on for me that will take WE and potential and shows what the recruit will look like at the end of 4 and 5 years. I literally can tell what each player will look like when fully grown before ever signing them. Is that cheating because she writes code and is smart?

This has been available (well, to me, at least) for a great number of years.

I'd like to say I did something as elegant as wrote code to do the heavy-lifting for me, but I did not. I started with a mental model and put it in Excel form with some basic algebraic equations. Then I tested it over thousands of player-seasons until it was good enough for me.

Posted by arcadecowboy on 5/18/2018 2:47:00 PM (view original):
I've used yatzr during recruiting for periods, and also haven't used it for periods of time (in fact, the only time I won NCs was when I wasn't using it). I don't consider it cheating, because I don't see it as dishonest or unfair. There's nothing on there I can't figure out by tons of clicks. Even the distance thing. You can easily use Google to find websites that will tell you straight line distance between towns.

I also know that there are people who play this game who are programmers, statisticians, mathematicians, etc., who have ways and means to individually and independently apply their special set of skills to win this game. Skills I don't have. Emotionally it feels like they're cheating, but rationally, they're not. Honestly, it's made me feel like quitting at times when I keep getting stomped by the same person who I know has the capability to crunch numbers like that. My spreadsheet skills are equivalent to my nunchuck skills, which aren't good, btw.

I agree with the others when they say it basically comes down to saving time. I don't see that as cheating. We all have different amounts of time to spend on this game. Some people are retired, unemployed, or have desk jobs which allow them to get their recruiting actions in. Some people have jobs where they can't access a computer for 8 or more hours a day. Some people have kids, too.

I believe the people who use yatzr would be just as successful without it. They just would play in less worlds (or none, it seems) due to time restrictions.

City Distance Tool

I've used that for over 10 years of real time. It's not perfect, but it's close enough to serve my purposes.

Like arcade said, the tool is an efficiency gain, not an "insider information" generator.

All this talk of tools...it seems to me there are at least three tools.....all of whom are represented in this thread.....

This is such a non-issue it's a joke. The tool has been available for years. Why the sudden "outrage?" Someone said it earlier, this is a troll job.

I would say the majority of people that play this game have some sort of spreadsheet they are using to try to get an upper hand. Still, it really comes down to school choice/location and recruiting savvy by spending the least amount of money possible to secure your preferred players and knowing when to battle and when to walk away.

yatzr's tools don't have ANY data in them. They're just empty spreadsheets that pull your data from GD, so while we're banning yatzr's tool, let's ban Excel, Access, Java, C, Fortran, and Basic while we're at it? Is it cheating to use a calculator while you're recruiting? Maybe we should ban pencil and paper, too...

Someone got their panties in a bunch. Fact of the matter is using tools like this isn't cheating. it is simply a method to more quickly and easily consume data. Whether someone uses Yatzrs tools or chooses to write their own scraping program to consume data who cares? Cheating would involve hacking into other's accounts and screwing up their teams.

Taking your statement that people who use the tools as "cheaters' to it's logical conclusion, someone who chooses to write their school paper using a computer and researching information online instead of encyclopedias at the library is also cheating.

Posted by scrodz on 5/19/2018 3:40:00 PM (view original):
yatzr's tools don't have ANY data in them. They're just empty spreadsheets that pull your data from GD, so while we're banning yatzr's tool, let's ban Excel, Access, Java, C, Fortran, and Basic while we're at it? Is it cheating to use a calculator while you're recruiting? Maybe we should ban pencil and paper, too...

Summary analysis. Perfect.

We haven’t heard from I80r20/CoachSpud/depuke

The tiger lurks.

Posted by chrondon84 on 5/20/2018 12:12:00 AM (view original):
The tiger lurks.

Have him see his doctor. There is something he can do for that.

I am a new user and I'm glad I decided to check the forums before purchasing additional seasons. So let me get this right the tool we are talking about shows both distance and potential? I have little trouble with the distance part (which is what this convo seems to be focused on) and more so with the potential. If I used this tool I could have just saved my money and had a list of all the high potential recruits?

Someone please let me know what I am missing ...but the potential part definitely seems to be cheating.