Deliberately throwing games to make money Topic

...obviously a ploy to get kissed...i'm not that easy...at least not at 10am...
12/22/2007 10:02 AM


[aah, yeah]

Jump in the water

Sweet little princess
Let me introduce his frogness
You alone can get him singing
Hes all puffed up, wanna be your king
Oh you can do it
Cmon [x6]
Lady kiss that frog

Splash, dash heard your call
Bring you back your golden ball
Hes gonna dive down in the deep end
Hes gonna be just like your best friend
So whats one little kiss
One tiny little touch
Aaah, hes wanting it so much
I swear that this is royal blood
Running through my skin
Oh can you see the state Im in
Kiss it better, kiss it better
[kiss that frog]

Get it into your royal head
Hes living with you, he sleeps in your bed
Cant you hear beyond the croaking
Dont you know that Im not joking
Aaah, you think you wont
I think you will
Dont you know that this tongue can kill
Cmon [x6]
Lady kiss that frog

Let him sit beside you
Eat right off your plate
You dont have to be afraid
Theres nothing here to hate
Ah, princess you might like it
If you lower your defence
Kiss that frog, and you will
Get your prince [x2]
[huh!]

Jump in the water, cmon baby jump in with me
Jump in the water, cmon baby get wet with me
Jump in the water, cmon baby jump in with me
Jump in the water, cmon baby get wet [get wet, get wet]

Kiss that frog, lady kiss that frog [x4]

Jump in the water, cmon baby jump in with me [x3]
Jump in the water, cmon baby get wet
[get wet, get wet] [x6]


12/22/2007 11:40 AM
12/22/2007 3:59 PM

All Forums > MLB SimLeagues
Topic: Deliberately throwing games to make money



Quote:
Originally Posted By cpdpoet on 12/21/2007



my two cents..........
Someone once likened the type of philosophy in this thread to "gaming strategy" vs "baseball strategy".
The baseball guys get upset that the gaming guys find these loopholes and exploit them, then it goes back and forth..
I just choose to stay with the baseball guys, but I don't bash the gamers, they're paying their $12.95 too.
If WIS knows about it and let's it go on, well.

I think this an especially good analysis.


12/23/2007 4:31 PM
You're right - it IS an insightful way of looking at things.

Tell me OB-wan, is the desire to place a Milacki in my lineup simply a lure from the Dark side? I want to use the force for *good*, but I want that championship!
12/24/2007 7:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted By mmiller989 on 12/24/2007




You're right - it IS an insightful way of looking at things.

Tell me OB-wan, is the desire to place a Milacki in my lineup simply a lure from the Dark side?

I want to use the force for *good*, but I want that championship!


hmmmm, What would Bob Milacki do?











Luke "Sky" ??? Walker Kenny "Sky" Walker





All Forums > MLB SimLeagues
Topic: Bob Milacki Sighting


Quote:
Originally Posted By TellySavalas on 4/07/2006





I just found out yesterday that Bob Milacki is the pitching coach of the local AA Farm Team here in Lynchburg, Virginia called the Lynchburg HillCats (Pittsburg Pirates Farm System). I called the team manager to see if he could arrange a surprise birthday meeting for my 13 year old son to meet Bob.

My son, Joseph is as much a WiS junkie as I am...he just can't afford as many teams as I can, yet :) and he knows all about Bob Milacki.

The manager said he would be happy to arrange the meeting, and after I told him what a legend Milacki was in our little world of WiS, he said that Milacki would be surpised to hear about it. Apparantly, Bob Milacki is very unassuming and completely unaware of what a legend he is here and would probably be a little embarrased by it all.

Milacki has been the pitching coach here in Lynchburg for 2 years and I only found out yesterday.

This is going to be pretty neat.

MIlacki Update...We did it!

Last night (5/13/06) our meeting with Bob Milacki went EXACTLY according to plan. I don't believe I have ever had a plan unfold so near to my original thinking. If you read my forum post (copied below) where I laid out my plan...then you will get an idea of what happened. And my son's reaction was priceless. His jaw dropped and he could barely talk.

Milacki was terrific. He chatted with us a few minutes and told us of his callup in 1988.

Since it's so late now, I'll post more tomorrow about how that went, but I will say this...he had never heard of WiS and he DID NOT KNOW that he had the lowest OAV of all time for a pitcher with at least 25 IP.

Enough for now...

Here is my previous post with my plan:

_______________________________________________

Since this is my son's birthday, I am going to surprise him with this meeting in this way:

I am going to arrange to meet Milacki on the field before the game. I'm not going to bring my boy down with me right away, I'm just going to engage Bob in a bit of baseball chat. and let him know this is my son's birthday and what I'm about to do. Then, I'm going to call my son down to the field and let him impress Bob with how much he knows about baseball history. I'll ask him a few questions that only those of us in SimLeagues would know. For instance: I'll ask him what the highest full-season batting average of all time was. Most people think it was Ty Cobb, but Joseph knows it was 1894 Hugh Duffy. Then I'll ask him what outfielder had the greatest fielding range statistic of all time, and of course he'll answer 1928 Taylor Douthit. Then I'll ask him what pitcher had the lowest OAV of all time with at least 25 IP. Joseph will immediately answer 1988 Bob Milacki. Then I'll ask him one last question. If your SimLeague team was in the World Series and you had ONE game you HAD TO WIN. What pitcher would you want? And I know Joseph will spit out, without hesitation, 1988 Bob Milacki.

At that point I will simply lookat my son and say, "Joseph, meet Bob Milacki".

The look on Joseph's face is going to be priceless. If I manage to get a good picture of it, I'll post it in the forum.





12/24/2007 11:13 AM
LOL! Thanks ooooohdoggie - I searched for and read the entire thread. Loved it! Now I know.
1/3/2008 7:07 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By mmiller989 on 1/03/2008
LOL! Thanks ooooohdoggie - I searched for and read the entire thread. Loved it! Now I know.
Thanks very much mmiller, and if m is for Marvin I think you deserve a plaque in Cooperstown.

In 1992, the Hall of Fame broadcaster Red Barber said, "Marvin Miller, along with Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson, is one of the two or three most important men in baseball history."







Probably the most inexplicable result in the 2003 voting was that some of the 41 committee members who played during Miller’s tenure didn’t vote for him.
Only two players acknowledged that they didn’t vote for Miller. Reggie Jackson said the Hall of Fame should be for players only, and Mike Schmidt said, without singling out anyone, that he looked at the ballot and decided not to vote for anyone.
“The only players I talked to,” Miller said the other day, “were those who said: ‘I don’t understand this. I don’t know why this happened. It’s ridiculous.’ ”
Miller was not surprised at the outcome, and he won’t be surprised by another negative outcome when the results are announced Feb. 27.
“It would be nice,” he said, “but when you’re my age, 89 going on 90, questions of mortality have a greater priority than a promised immortality.”
Jackson, who was in the first class of free agents 30 years ago, disclosed that he had changed his thinking.
“I’ve given more thought to it,” Jackson said Sunday by telephone from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. “I’m just trying to have a broader view and be objective about people who have had a great impact on the game. Their kind of significance merits notice. The people who were influential in the development of the game need credit for that.”
Does that group include Miller?
“Marvin Miller absolutely should be included in the Hall of Fame,” Jackson said.

1/3/2008 10:26 AM


Marvin Miller: Hall of Famer

You may hate the strikes and free agency he brought to baseball, but union chief helped the game.

July 29, 2005: 5:54 PM EDT
A weekly column by Chris Isidore, CNN/Money senior writer



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Marvin Miller is the man who brought labor work stoppages, millionaire players and free agency to the world of professional sports, three things for which many fans will never forgive him.

But it's long past time for fans to realize that sports, especially baseball, are better for the changes that Miller brought.

The time is even longer past for baseball itself to acknowlege his contributions as the first executive director of the Major League Baseball Players' Association. It's time to include him in the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

Miller says he's not overly concerned with getting into the Hall, because he doesn't see it ever happening.

"Any trade union leader worth his salt knows how to count votes in advance," Miller told me this week. "Would I like to be inducted? Sure. Do I think I will? No."

Miller won't be in Cooperstown this weekend for induction weekend with the baseball's other elder statesmen. He said he's only been to the 1996 ceremony, as a guest of pitcher Jim Bunning the year he was inducted.

Bunning -- who's now a Republican senator from Kentucky -- was on the union's search committee that hired Miller, an accomplishment Bunning has said equalled his perfect game as his greatest accomplishments in the game.

But while Hall of Famers Nolan Ryan and Carlton Fisk also both took time in their induction speeches to thank Miller, some who profited handsomely from his work have questioned whether he should join them in the Hall.

Reggie Jackson, one of the first players to cash in on free agency, said he didn't believe any non-player should be inducted. It may be others felt the same way he did.

In the last vote in 2005 to consider executives, managers and other non-players, Miller was selected by 44 percent of those voting. But a candidate needs to be on 75 percent of ballots cast for induction into hall. None of those on ballot along with Miller were inducted.

Part of the problem for Miller is that just over one-quarter of 62 living Hall of Famers, who vote on whether he should be join them, either played before Miller took over the union or are in the hall as an executive or manager.

Another 20 percent played after Miller took over but before he could bring about free agency, although some of that latter group includes his strongest advocates, such as Bunning.

In addition, broadcasters and writers who have been honored by a separate wing of the Hall are also eligible to vote, and none of them obviously had any direct benefit from Miller's accomplishments. In fact, the baseball press has generally been hostile to Miller and the union over the years.

Perhaps Miller should have more hope for induction than he does. Some Hall of Famers, including Joe Morgan and Tom Seaver, expressed shock that he wasn't inducted in 2003. Some effective lobbying may go on before the next vote in 2007.

Free agency improved the game
What helps Miller's chances the most is that the idea of free agency isn't considered quite as shocking or controversial any more.

Even a Miller adversary such Bowie Kuhn, commissioner during much of his tenure, told me this week that free agency has been good for the game, although he woudn't comment on his views on whether Miller or any other candidate should be enshrined in Cooperstown.

"It (free agency) has drawbacks, it has changed the traditional fidelity of player and club. That's a loss," said Kuhn. "On the other hand, it creates a more interesting game, because there's more talent in play."

Free agency led the owners to start treating the game like a business that needed to be developed and marketed, which in turn increased interest.

It is not a coincidence that average per game attendance increased 56 percent from 1965, the year before Miller came on the scene, to 1983, his last year with the union.

The attendance grew in spite of professed fan anger over five work stoppages during Miller's tenure.

The potential riches of free agency also helped attract a generation of young athletes to the sport who might have gone elsewhere without it. And it indirectly led teams to make more concerted investments in player development as a way of finding lower-cost alternatives to top-dollar free agents.

That effort is part of the reason that baseball started tapping into foreign countries for a new generation of exciting stars.

Miller's accomplishments also gave the players the incentive and wherewithal to spend time honing their craft, spending the offseason training and practicing rather than working other jobs to pay their bills.

The quality of play, not just pay, are better today because of Miller.

"It's ludicrous that he's not in the Hall," said Andrew Zimbalist, a professor at Smith College and an expert on the economics of baseball. "He's one of the most important executives in the history of the game. He transformed the sport. If the Hall is going include both players and executives, it hurts its integrity for him to not be there."

For a look at whether Yankee owner George Steinbrenner should be in the Hall of Fame, click here.

For more stories on the business of sports, click here.


1/3/2008 10:38 AM



Simulation Baseball and Gardening

For myself I enjoy putting a team together as we do in Progressive Leagues, but my frustration level is such that I don't want to watch the day to day play closely.
Not because I don't care, the opposite may be the case, such as the football coach's wife who can't watch the game unfold because of the wild emotional roller coaster she experiences with the normal ups and downs of a sporting contest.
Now with more drastic fatigue effects programmed into our baseball simulation, my teams will likely be much less set them and forget 'em. And an owner such as myself will incur wrath from the owners who stay on top of their teams.
If I may attempt an analogy I like to plan my garden and enjoy watching it grow. But now daily weeding will be much more necessary. And I don't plant a garden so I can have more weeding opportunities in my life.

1/6/2008 7:48 AM
Marvin - he is my uncle...NOT! Very interesting history though. It's funny that they made a card for him! I remember how hurt I was by the strikes as a kid. It takes a different perspective to realize that he was good for the game.
1/8/2008 4:14 AM
I find the fatigue effect annoying too - they killed the first 25 games of the season for a 60M team of mine. There's nothing inherently wrong with over-playing a role player. The main reason they threw it in there that I can think of was to counter the "hose-and-dispose" technique. I don't understand why they took such a complicated route though.

Why did they adopt it over a straightforward proportional trade-in value? If you "use up" 50% of a player's PAs or IPs, you should get 50% of their value as a trade-in, plus an added penalty charge, of like 5%. Certainly this has occurred to them; I just don't get it.
1/8/2008 4:22 AM

My new hobbyhorse, fatigue,


kbosch said things quite succintly
The key to success is crafting a team that fits into the design flaws and exploitable parts of the current SIM version. And a bit of logic. That's it.
All Forums > MLB SimLeagues
Topic: NO...THIS IS FUNNY


Quote: Originally Posted By kbosch on 7/24/2007
That's amusing, but I can't see how a few games at the end of a season would hurt fatigue that much.


If it did, then you already farked it up too much during the season.


Also, if your team was that talented, to score endless runs, then they should be good enough to scrap up enough to win one playoff series. Oh well.


The key to success is crafting a team that fits into the design flaws and exploitable parts of the current SIM version. And a bit of logic. That's it.



2/1/2008 1:29 PM

Drafting more than 13 pitchers bump




An unexpected Consequence from oue Failure Gets You 7 GC Theme, illustrating fatigue's effect.


All Forums > MLB SimLeagues
Topic: Failure league


Quote: Originally Posted By clk0619 on 6/12/2007

Quote: Originally Posted By TellySavalas on 6/10/2007
Update on my "Kojack Gets Smacked" team that won the WS in the last Failure Gets You 7 league:

I am in the SEMIFINALS of the TOC. Yup. You read that right. My 32 win team is up 1-0 in the Semi's. How is that possible? Well, I keep winning every other game, that's how. I only have one pitcher, but he's a monster. 1888 Silver King has been unhittable in the TOC. He's 10-0 (throwing 10 complete games) in his 10 starts with an ERA around .75 :)

I only play my "good team" every other game and I am a perfect 10-0 in those games with King pitching.

I then play my "bad team" every other game as well and I am not only winless in those games, but I have lost those games by an average of something like 40 runs per game...maybe more.

So, as long as I win game one and then every odd numbered game in each series, I keep advancing.

I'll keep you posted as to my progress.





not a bad strategy i bet the other guys have serious fatigue after your bum games
Quote: Originally Posted By TellySavalas on 6/12/2007
clk0619: Yes they do.

Scoring 50="60" runs in a game can burn through your PA pretty quickly. I feel real good about my chances in this thing. Wouldn't it be ironic if a team from a "Failure Gets You 7" League won a TOC?

Talk about Cinderella!

3/20/2008 10:55 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By mmiller989 on 1/08/2008



I find the fatigue effect annoying too - they killed the first 25 games of the season for a 60M team of mine. There's nothing inherently wrong with over-playing a role player. The main reason they threw it in there that I can think of was to counter the "hose-and-dispose" technique. I don't understand why they took such a complicated route though.

Why did they adopt it over a straightforward proportional trade-in value? If you "use up" 50% of a player's PAs or IPs, you should get 50% of their value as a trade-in, plus an added penalty charge, of like 5%. Certainly this has occurred to them; I just don't get it.




I liked the trade-in idea as well, I even passed on a proposed change to administration that included that concept.

Ran it by JohnGPF and just4me as well, nothing has developed from this as far as I know.


3/20/2008 7:09 PM
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