All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Possession Penalty, Where is it?
7/22/2008 4:46 PM
... Oh, one more question (sorry) ...

Just so I understand for future purposes, this "possession penalty" is by individual player, not by team total shots, is that right? In other words, if I build a team of hot potato players (usages < 10%) around Kobe and his 39% usage rating, should I expect to see Kobe's FG% impacted negatively as a result of taking more shots than his average even if total team shots are within normal range?

If so, how does it work? Does his success rate decrease with each attempt above his average, or is there a blanket adjustment once he reaches his average attempts? Also, is his fatigue effected by additional shots, or is that strictly a function of minutes played?

Or am I asking for too many Sim secrets, and if I don't stop prying can be expecting a visit from Guido the Sim Pimp and his brass knuckles?
7/22/2008 5:26 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By abrondon on 7/22/2008... Incidentally, my team according to real life totals would average 12.2 TOs per game, so getting 21 per is quite a sizable increase as is. FG% has definitely NOT suffered as a result of the extra shots, however. In fact, it's improved. I like to think of that as a result of good coaching, but guess my pre-game pep talks had nothing to do with it
By using the possession formula of FGA+(0.44*FTA)+TO, ur team averaged 0.167 TO per possession in real life. After 40 games, ur team is averaging 0.176 TO per possession in the sim league. That's less than a 6% increase.
7/22/2008 6:54 PM
6% is a fairly significant variation but we cant really look at it objectively without knowing what kind steals/press settings etc his team is facing
7/22/2008 7:30 PM
Based on the possessions it appears as though Abrondons team is running uptempo. This would easily explain the slight increase in tovs per possession as well as the increase in fg% (that is to say in the absence of an effective possession penalty).

What should be clear to any objective observer is that an old Wilt who scored 13 hi % points ppg on easy put backs or dunks should not be able to maintain (let alone increase) that efficiency when functioning as a primary scorer (22 ppgs). Similarly Brent Barry should not see his fg% go from 50% (as a secondary option) to 58% as a primary scoring option.
7/22/2008 7:42 PM
Abrondon, teams always avg higher t/os in the sim than in RL. I have drafted 2 teams with RL t/o under 12 and they end up with t/o of 15-16.

The point of having a possession penalty is to prevent guys from drafting a full team of guys with low ppg and shoot high %. Under this scenario, ppg becomes irrelevant in which a player like bo outlaw is more valuable than MJ or the 77-78 unseld being more valuable than the much more expensive 35ppg mcadoo.

The flaw, obviously, is that ppg is heavily reflected in the salary structure of WIS; clearly, RL ppg has 0 value under the current engine with the apparent success of abrondon's team and the new team that ashleyscott built.


As for evidence of possession penalty significantly affecting T/O and Fg%, just ask the owners that have threw away games by starting their scrubs and bencing their starters. When they do that, their scrubs shoot 15-20% (RL fg% about 30-40) and have t/os of 30-40.
7/22/2008 8:16 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By qistat on 7/22/2008
What should be clear to any objective observer is that an old Wilt who scored 13 hi % points ppg on easy put backs or dunks should not be able to maintain (let alone increase) that efficiency when functioning as a primary scorer (22 ppgs). Similarly Brent Barry should not see his fg% go from 50% (as a secondary option) to 58% as a primary scoring option.

I dont think anyone is arguing that there shouldnt be a penalty
7/22/2008 9:27 PM
I agree with the postings. My only "gripe" so to speak would be that I put this team together based on its effectiveness in the existing Sim settings. For them to be changed midstream would be upsetting insofar as I certainly would have put together a different roster otherwise. But in principle in terms of the logic, it does make sense that if an marked increase in shot attempts would impact a player's effectiveness.

Still, if this change turns my team from a 37-3 superpower into a turnover prone .500 club, something's not right about that either, at least midseason.
7/22/2008 9:29 PM
(Sorry about my poor sentence structure.)
7/23/2008 4:51 AM
People playing scrubs to rest their starter have high TOs because of fatigue issues, not possession penalty.

7/23/2008 5:00 AM
And the 37-3 team will be a first round playoff casualty. It's not a .500 club with the high TO and poor shooting.


Correction: It looks like you may have drafted high enough possessions to limit the penalty, assuming your team gets penalized at all.

It's my team that got hit.

7/23/2008 10:23 AM
Actually Ashley, Abrondrons 38-3 team drafted less than 70% of the required possesions and will be hugely penalized should the penalty be enabled.
7/23/2008 10:43 AM
Is there are reference link for things like this (the possessions penalty, TO%, etc.)? I honestly wasn't trying to game the system, I happened upon this lineup in an exhibition league under the premise of "What if there isn't a single bad shooter in the lineup?" and it worked, so I ran with it. I didn't know there was (supposed to be) a possessions penalty, otherwise I might have tried something similar but with a slow-down offense designed to minimize possessions.
7/23/2008 11:39 AM
By definition any owner attempting to be successful needs to 'game' the system. You have done the new sim release a favor by identifying a glitch early on in the process.

I say, well done.
7/24/2008 4:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by qistat on 7/23/2008 You have done the new sim release a favor by identifying a glitch early on in the process.

and in turn has been screwed out of his $$ because WIS did not properly test the new release.

7/24/2008 5:10 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By tianyi7886 on 7/19/2008
Quote: Originally posted by seble on 7/19/2008 Guys, we're aware of this issue and should have it fixed next week. Thanks.

Thx seble.

Ashleyscott, I made this post bc ghostdog did a kobe bryant for 50ppg team, with about 5k fga and 2k fta and his t/o was off the charts due to possession penalty. I was shocked to see your team and then see abrondon's team in t25 with only 4k fga and normal t/os
I find the success of these current teams irksome given how spectacularly my kobe team sucked.
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All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Possession Penalty, Where is it?

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