If you are interested, I’m now recruiting for a No Catchers League, in the classified. We can see if A/A Inf & Of can be catchers.

Speaking of which if I were to take as an for instance

1892 Frank Shugart ...

Pittsburgh Pirates

---

Position: SS
Salary: $3,705,904

Who famously played 2 Games at Catcher D-/A/A (.876/6.69) with Performance History

SimLeague Fielding Statistics

Type	Pos	G	GS	Inn	PO	A	E	DP	+	-	Fld%	RF	SBA	CS	CS Pct.
Average	C	153	152	1323	514	65	16	3	0	0	0.973	3.94	147	46	0.32

Would it be wise to Draft another Year as Catcher where he did not play as such ? ... His 1892 SS Grade D/A (.886/5.59)

Posted by fatguyrd on 1/20/2024 10:15:00 PM (view original):
If you are interested, I’m now recruiting for a No Catchers League, in the classified. We can see if A/A Inf & Of can be catchers.

Over an entire season you will get over 100 PB
CS % of 10% if that and lots of errors.

We are 37 games into this league as of this morning...time permitting, I will post some data later today.

As background, here are the details of the league.

The most critical things to know are:
-- Every team has 1965 Jackie Moore (C+/A/D). He is the only player on the roster who is allowed to have ANY rating at catcher.
-- Since Moore has only 61 RL PA, every team is playing the vast majority of the time with a catcher who is not rated at that position.
-- Some owners are using Moore for spot starts; other are using him primarily as a defensive replacement; others appear to be using him in different ways at different times.
-- Every team must roster some version of Rickey Henderson.
-- Most teams, unsurprisingly, have built offenses heavily oriented around stolen bases.

Through 37 games, the various Jackie Moores have combined to combined to play 530 2/3 innings. His total defensive stats are:

Team	Player	Year	Original Position	Grades	G	INN	PO	A	E	PB	CS	SBA	CS%	FLD%	Error %	PB/9	SBA/9
Like Eating Soup	Moore, Jackie	1965			21	51.3	26	0	0	0	0	6	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	1.05
Tools of Incompetence	Moore, Jackie	1965			10	42.0	26	0	0	0	0	5	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	1.07
Whata Backstop	Moore, Jackie	1965			4	36.0	29	5	0	0	3	11	27.27%	1.000	0.000	0.00	2.75
Moore is Less	Moore, Jackie	1965			7	35.0	37	1	0	2	0	5	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.51	1.29
Scoot Yer Boot	Moore, Jackie	1965			8	34.0	31	3	0	0	3	14	21.43%	1.000	0.000	0.00	3.71
Ring That Bell	Moore, Jackie	1965			4	32.0	25	1	1	0	1	10	10.00%	0.963	0.037	0.00	2.81
Did Anyone Catch	Moore, Jackie	1965			15	29.7	27	0	0	0	0	7	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	2.12
Slow Pitch Softball	Moore, Jackie	1965			12	28.0	12	1	0	1	1	6	16.67%	1.000	0.000	0.32	1.93
Who is Behind	Moore, Jackie	1965			3	28.0	18	0	0	0	0	2	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.64
Running Roughshod	Moore, Jackie	1965			12	27.0	14	1	0	0	1	2	50.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.67
We Gonna Suck	Moore, Jackie	1965			11	27.0	20	0	0	0	0	0	#DIV/0!	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.00
Where's Uecker	Moore, Jackie	1965			13	25.0	13	1	0	0	1	1	100.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.36
Dan Gamble	Moore, Jackie	1965			13	24.0	20	0	1	0	0	1	0.00%	0.952	0.048	0.00	0.38
No Catchers	Moore, Jackie	1965			13	22.0	12	0	0	0	0	3	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	1.23
Not Johnny Bench	Moore, Jackie	1965			12	21.0	17	0	0	0	0	1	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.43
Baby We Were Born	Moore, Jackie	1965			10	20.0	16	0	0	0	0	0	#DIV/0!	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.00
There Goes Swifty	Moore, Jackie	1965			5	17.7	13	2	0	0	1	5	20.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	2.55
Battery Not Included	Moore, Jackie	1965			9	17.0	6	1	0	0	0	0	#DIV/0!	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.00
Today Can Catch	Moore, Jackie	1965			5	9.0	6	0	0	0	0	1	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	1.00
Ninja	Moore, Jackie	1965			4	4.0	3	0	0	0	0	0	#DIV/0!	1.000	0.000	0.00	0.00
No Catcher Vizquel	Moore, Jackie	1965			1	1.0	0	0	0	0	0	0	#DIV/0!	#DIV/0!	#DIV/0!	0.00	0.00
	Moore Totals				192	530.7	371	16	2	3	11	80	13.75%	0.995	0.005	0.05	1.36

Moore's totals should probably be considered a control group:
1.4 stolen base attempts per 9 innings
13.75% CS rate
0.05 passed balls per 9 innings
0.995 Fielding Percentage; I find it more useful to look at the complement of this: 0.005 error percentage (5 errors per 1,000 chances)

In the posts that follow, I am not making any adjustments for fatigue. Fatigue no doubt results in deteriorated performance, but I have made no effort to track fatigue rate for each player for each game.

Here are the aggregate stats, through 37 games, for everyone else who has played even 1 inning at catcher:

G	INN	PO	A	E	PB	CS	SBA	CS%	FLD%	Error %	PB/9	SBA/9
880	7353.7	5224	142	55	1564	31	3906	0.79%	0.990	0.010	1.91	4.78

Compared to Moore, the guys unrated at catcher:
-- Have double the error rate (0.010 compared to 0.005). Not nearly as bad as I would have expected.
-- Have 37.6 times more passed balls (1.91 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.5 times more stolen base attempts (4.78 per 9 innings, compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 94% worse CS percentage (0.79% CS compared to 13.75% CS)

One intrepid owner decided to play a DH at Catcher. 1995 Paul Molitor has no defensive ratings at any position.

Team

Player

Year

Original Position

Grades

G

INN

PO

A

E

PB

CS

SBA

CS%

FLD%

Error %

PB/9

SBA/9

No Catchers

Molitor, Paul

1995

DH

N/A

37

310.0

245

7

9

80

3

194

1.55%

0.966

0.034

2.32

5.63

Compared to Moore, Molitor:
-- Has an error rate 6.7 times higher (0.034 compared to 0.005)
-- Has 45.6 times the number of passed balls (2.32 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Has 4.2 times the number of SBA (5.63 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Has an 89% worse CS percentage (1.55% CS compared to 13.75% CS). In this one category, Molitor is better than the average of all other catchers. I expect this is small sample size. He's thrown out 3 guys in total in 194 attempts...I'll be shocked if by the end of the season he is not worse than the others.

Eleven outfielders have seen time at catcher:

Team	Player	Year	Original Position	Grades	G	INN	PO	A	E	PB	CS	SBA	CS%	FLD%	Error %	PB/9	SBA/9
Dan Gamble	Brock, Lou	1974	OF	D+/D+	37	302.0	185	3	4	62	0	149	0.00%	0.979	0.021	1.85	4.44
Did Anyone Catch	Raines, Tim	1984	OF	B+/A	36	291.0	193	9	5	58	2	175	1.14%	0.976	0.024	1.79	5.41
Who is Behind	Henderson, Rickey	1982	OF	C/A	21	189.0	107	0	1	37	0	78	0.00%	0.991	0.009	1.76	3.71
Tools of Incompetence	McBride, Bake	1977	OF	A-/D+	18	156.0	91	1	1	34	1	77	1.30%	0.989	0.011	1.96	4.44
Tools of Incompetence	Lopes, Davey	1985	OF	A/D-	16	134.3	80	2	4	26	0	69	0.00%	0.953	0.047	1.74	4.62
Whata Backstop	Coleman, Vince	1985	OF	C+/C+	10	43.7	42	0	0	10	0	9	0.00%	1.000	0.000	2.06	1.85
Whata Backstop	Miller, Eddie	1979	OF	B+/A+	4	41.7	27	0	0	10	0	23	0.00%	1.000	0.000	2.16	4.97
Who is Behind	Bannister, Alan	1975	OF	C/A+	3	27.0	13	0	0	7	0	13	0.00%	1.000	0.000	2.33	4.33
Who is Behind	Venable, Max	1989	OF	C/D-	2	17.0	17	0	0	2	0	4	0.00%	1.000	0.000	1.06	2.12
Ring That Bell	Maddox, Elliott	1975	OF	A+/A+	3	14.0	8	0	1	1	0	6	0.00%	0.889	0.111	0.64	3.86
Who is Behind	Allen, Chad	2000	OF	C/D	1	9.0	8	0	1	1	0	1	0.00%	0.889	0.111	1.00	1.00
	Total					1224.7	771	15	17	248	3	604	0.50%	0.979	0.021	1.82	4.44
	Non-Moore Totals				880	7353.7	5224	142	55	1564	31	3906	0.79%	0.990	0.010	1.91	4.78
	Moore Totals				192	530.7	371	16	2	3	11	80	13.75%	0.995	0.005	0.05	1.36

Contrarian23 Thanks very much for doing this.
Buddy Bell my main catcher has far too many games with 5;6 passed balls.. I’m sure he is way above the average.

Compared to Moore, the OFs:
-- Have an error rate 4.1 times higher (0.021 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 35.8 times the number of passed balls (1.82 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.3 times the number of SBA (4.44 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 96% worse CS percentage (0.50% CS compared to 13.75% CS).

Interestingly, there is little to choose from between Brock and Raines, despite very different fielding ratings in the OF. I assume that whatever adjustment WIS makes, the deterioration for OF is so great that the initial differences between them are more or less washed out.

Only three 1B have seen any time at catcher. Small sample size. Take these numbers with a grain of salt:

Team	Player	Year	Original Position	Grades	G	INN	PO	A	E	PB	CS	SBA	CS%	FLD%	Error %	PB/9	SBA/9
Poughkeepsie	Loretta, Mark	1998	1B	B-/D-	7	62.0	51	2	0	8	0	25	0.00%	1.000	0.000	1.16	3.63
No Catcher Vizquel	Evans, Dwight	1987	1B	D/D-	5	41.0	28	1	0	18	0	24	0.00%	1.000	0.000	3.95	5.27
Did Anyone Catch	Yastrzemski, Carl	1970	1B	C/D-	1	9.0	7	0	0	3	0	10	0.00%	1.000	0.000	3.00	10.00
	Total					112.0	86.0	3.0	0.0	29.0	0.0	59.0	0.00%	1.000	0.000	2.33	4.74
	Non-Moore Totals				880	7353.7	5224	142	55	1564	31	3906	0.79%	0.990	0.010	1.91	4.78
	Moore Totals				192	530.7	371	16	2	3	11	80	13.75%	0.995	0.005	0.05	1.36

Compared to Moore, the 1Bs:
-- Have made no errors
-- Have 45.8 times the number of passed balls (2.33 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.5 times the number of SBA (4.74 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 100% worse CS percentage (0.00% CS compared to 13.75% CS).

Even in a small sample size, Evans is really terrible...5.3 SB attempts per 9, 0 CS, and 4 PB per 9 innings. Ouch.

Five 3B have seen playing time at catcher, 4 of whom are more or less playing there regularly, including the aforementioned Buddy Bell:

Team	Player	Year	Original Position	Grades	G	INN	PO	A	E	PB	CS	SBA	CS%	FLD%	Error %	PB/9	SBA/9
Today Can Catch	Buechele, Steve	1991	3B	A+/B	37	320.0	248	5	1	63	1	173	0.58%	0.996	0.004	1.77	4.87
Slow Pitch Softball	Johnson, Howard	1989	3B	D/D-	37	312.0	143	4	2	65	1	166	0.60%	0.987	0.013	1.88	4.79
Not Johnny Bench	Cabell, Enos	1978	3B	B/C-	37	305.0	209	7	1	59	2	155	1.29%	0.995	0.005	1.74	4.57
Ring That Bell	Bell, Buddy	1980	3B	A/A	26	212.7	159	8	1	56	2	128	1.56%	0.994	0.006	2.37	5.42
Ring That Bell	Ripken Jr., Cal	1999	3B	D+/D	5	37.7	22	0	0	11	0	20	0.00%	1.000	0.000	2.63	4.78
	Total					1187.3	781	24	5	254	6	642	0.93%	0.994	0.006	1.93	4.87
	Non-Moore Totals				880	7353.7	5224	142	55	1564	31	3906	0.79%	0.990	0.010	1.91	4.78
	Moore Totals				192	530.7	371	16	2	3	11	80	13.75%	0.995	0.005	0.05	1.36

Compared to Moore, the 3Bs:
-- Have an error rate 1.2 times higher (0.006 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 37.8 times the number of passed balls (1.93 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.6 times the number of SBA (4.87 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 93% worse CS percentage (0.93% CS compared to 13.75% CS).

Eight 2B have seen time at catcher, six of whom are playing there at least part-time:

Team	Player	Year	Original Position	Grades	G	INN	PO	A	E	PB	CS	SBA	CS%	FLD%	Error %	PB/9	SBA/9
Ninja	Biggio, Craig	1995	2B	B+/C	37	321.7	198	6	2	65	2	195	1.03%	0.990	0.010	1.82	5.46
Battery Not Included	Biggio, Craig	1993	2B	B/C+	37	312.0	193	3	1	49	1	144	0.69%	0.995	0.005	1.41	4.15
There Goes Swifty	Biggio, Craig	1997	2B	B-/A+	36	309.0	209	5	0	62	3	166	1.81%	1.000	0.000	1.81	4.83
We Gonna Suck	Biggio, Craig	1994	2B	A-/C	37	295.3	238	6	0	63	0	179	0.00%	1.000	0.000	1.92	5.45
Moore is Less	Morgan, Joe	1977	2B	A/D	30	252.0	228	6	1	61	0	157	0.00%	0.996	0.004	2.18	5.61
Running Roughshod	Herr, Tom	1991	2B	A+/D-	19	159.0	97	1	1	33	1	94	1.06%	0.990	0.010	1.87	5.32
Who is Behind	Grebeck, Craig	1999	2B	C/D-	4	35.0	19	1	1	11	0	12	0.00%	0.952	0.048	2.83	3.09
Moore is Less	Biggio, Craig	1994	2B	A-/C	4	34.0	28	0	1	10	0	26	0.00%	0.966	0.034	2.65	6.88
	Total					1718.0	1210	28	7	354	7	973	0.72%	0.994	0.006	1.85	5.10
	Non-Moore Totals				880	7353.7	5224	142	55	1564	31	3906	0.79%	0.990	0.010	1.91	4.78
	Moore Totals				192	530.7	371	16	2	3	11	80	13.75%	0.995	0.005	0.05	1.36

Compared to Moore, the 2Bs:
-- Have an error rate 1.1 times higher (0.006 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 36.4 times the number of passed balls (1.85 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.8 times the number of SBA (5.10 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 95% worse CS percentage (0.72% CS compared to 13.75% CS).

No idea why so many owners went with Biggio, unless they think the sim somehow "knows" that Biggio did catch at some point in his career and adjusts him favorably.

Sixteen SS have seen time at catcher, including 11 who are playing there at least semi-regularly:

Team	Player	Year	Original Position	Grades	G	INN	PO	A	E	PB	CS	SBA	CS%	FLD%	Error %	PB/9	SBA/9
PB and SB	Smith, Ozzie	1987	SS	A+/B	37	323.0	213	9	2	61	3	190	1.58%	0.991	0.009	1.70	5.29
Baby We Were Born	Vizquel, Omar	1998	SS	A+/B-	37	317.3	257	4	2	65	0	136	0.00%	0.992	0.008	1.84	3.86
Scoot Yer Boot	Campaneris, Bert	1968	SS	C/B+	35	306.3	224	8	5	74	3	188	1.60%	0.979	0.021	2.17	5.52
Where's Uecker	Aparicio, Luis	1969	SS	A-/A-	37	305.0	202	7	5	63	1	142	0.70%	0.977	0.023	1.86	4.19
No Catcher Vizquel	Vizquel, Omar	2000	SS	A+/D	32	283.3	189	4	1	65	0	148	0.00%	0.995	0.005	2.06	4.70
Like Eating Soup	Smith, Ozzie	1985	SS	A/A+	37	277.0	130	7	0	47	0	145	0.00%	1.000	0.000	1.53	4.71
Poughkeepsie	Trammell, Alan	1993	SS	A+/D	24	207.0	225	5	0	59	1	107	0.93%	1.000	0.000	2.57	4.65
It’s a Blurr	Vizquel, Omar	1999	SS	A-/C-	22	191.3	193	9	1	41	2	89	2.25%	0.995	0.005	1.93	4.19
Whata Backstop	Smith, Ozzie	1984	SS	A/A+	22	181.0	164	0	1	35	0	71	0.00%	0.994	0.006	1.74	3.53
Running Roughshod	Almon, Bill	1985	SS	A+/D-	18	144.0	105	4	0	38	2	102	1.96%	1.000	0.000	2.38	6.38
It’s a Blurr	Wills, Maury	1965	SS	B/A+	14	124.3	104	4	0	18	0	52	0.00%	1.000	0.000	1.30	3.76
Poughkeepsie	Bowa, Larry	1972	SS	A+/D+	6	51.0	48	3	0	10	0	25	0.00%	1.000	0.000	1.76	4.41
Whata Backstop	Kubek, Tony	1962	SS	C/A+	4	34.0	31	1	0	8	0	13	0.00%	1.000	0.000	2.12	3.44
Who is Behind	Uribe, Jose	1993	SS	D+/D-	3	26.0	20	0	0	6	0	11	0.00%	1.000	0.000	2.08	3.81
Ring That Bell	Yount, Robin	1981	SS	A/A+	4	22.0	16	0	0	9	0	13	0.00%	1.000	0.000	3.68	5.32
It’s a Blurr	Alomar, Sandy	1965	SS	B-/D-	1	9.0	10	0	0	0	0	2	0.00%	1.000	0.000	0.00	2.00
	Total					2801.7	2131	65	17	599	12	1434	0.84%	0.992	0.008	1.92	4.61
	Non-Moore Totals				880	7353.7	5224	142	55	1564	31	3906	0.79%	0.990	0.010	1.91	4.78
	Moore Totals				192	530.7	371	16	2	3	11	80	13.75%	0.995	0.005	0.05	1.36

Compared to Moore, the SSs:
-- Have an error rate 1.5 times higher (0.008 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 37.8 times the number of passed balls (1.92 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.4 times the number of SBA (4.61 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 94% worse CS percentage (0.84% CS compared to 13.75% CS).