Quote: Originally Posted By snake_p on 1/27/2010
True, you know your starting situation in all the WIS sports, some (GD, HBD) because you pick your team, some (FCD) because starter teams are all so similar.
But look at the arguments you are making to try to defend your points ... (1.) You pretend that HBD teams available to newbies aren't mostly crap, when that is exactly why worlds so often take RL weeks or months to fill. (2.) You deny that GD sim teams are crap, despite the cacaphony in the forums that they are so bad the game has to be updated to improve them. (3.) You held up "1st year experience" in evaluating a Dynasty game. (I will grant you were willing to backpedal on that one when challenged.) (4.) QUOTE: "I expected to learn something and was surprised to learn nothing," and that is supposed to be a game problem and not your problem. (5.) QUOTE: "Sure, all games have the features you cite. But they really don't count..." (6.) QUOTE: "The quality of talent a 1st year coach/owner in GD/HBD starts with is far, far closer to league average than in FCD." And in FCD everybody starts with essentially the same team. You disregard that even the guys who win championships started with essentially that same team.
And finally, one I can partly actually agree with: (7.) "They need to do a little recalibrating to get this thing on the track" FCD isn't off track, just not changing as fast as some people's impatience require. read Norbert's posts and you will see that (a) he understands how to improve it, (b) he is definitely on the right track, (c) he thought it would go a little faster than it has, and (d) the game it will become is a really good sounding game.
I think we're mostly in agreement but talking past each other. First, to boil it all down, the average GD SIM team or HBD available franchise has a higher % of league average
talent than the typical FCD club in a well-populated World by a considerable margin. Bear in mind that the very high # SIM teams in GD brings down the average talent level, which by definition is going to mean taking over a SIM team leaves you not that
far from the league average.
Second, look at the highlighted portion. Replace that with "as fast as average people require" and you'll understand where a lot of us are coming from. You're a patient person, snake. We get that. And it's a very admirable quality in its own right. But you're more patient than I am, and I'm more patient than most, and that has a lot to do with human nature and the fact that people are just all different.
From a marketing perspective, in order for this to be something cool, fun, and successful that we can all be a part of long term, it needs to improve, as both you, norbet, and everyone else on the board acknowledges. And I think this is exactly the kind of user feedback the want and need. I really enjoy this game, but I can see why it has a hard time holding the appeal of regular, average joes long enough for them to catch up and get the hang of it.
I think the best definition of a Utopian system is a system that will work outstandingly well if only people in large numbers will just start behaving "better" than people in large numbers are known to generally behave.
When you're a very patient person, you have to be careful not to ask large numbers of people to be more patient than large numbers of people generally are, snake. Unless you don't mind setting yourself up to be let down all the time.