Post-Update Fielding??? Topic

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zubinsum
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Quote: Originally Posted By JohnGPF on 10/06/2009

...i don't like the new FLD system as i understand it...i preferred an idea that tied FLD to the pitcher on the mound...1908 pitcher, every one fielded like 1908 fielders; 2008 pitcher, everyone fielded like 2008 fielders...

Hmm, I wasn't imagining that dead-ball era guys will be completely brought up to modern standards. I kind of figured the new FP would be a combination of their actual percentages and how well they did compared to the league average (fielding).

10/7/2009 10:01 PM
redsfive
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Posted by JohnGPF on 10/7/2009 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Quote: Originally Posted By jjgreen14 on 10/07/2009
Is that the system you were in favor for that you were describing there or the new FLD system as you understand it? If not the new system, what do you think the new system will be?

Thank
...that's the type of system i'm in favor of...not sure how the new system will function in practice...FLD will probably function the same, players will just have new numbers...what the new +/- distributions will be is anybody's guess...but if modern players, who generally have lower RRFs than players from earlier eras to start with, suddenly see their FLD drop and their minus plays soar, that could turn player selection on its head...
3 year anniversary coming up since I've read an extremely intelligent post by the man who seemingly could understand every aspect of this computer generated game...Wonder whatever happened to JohnGPF?
9/29/2012 10:59 AM
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eastvanmungo
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From what I remember he vanished rather abruptly.  I'm hoping it wasn't a sudden, drastic heath issue.  I also recall, though, that towards the end of his tenure he seemed to be in some running battles with one or two other forum posters who didn't treat his very well thought out posts and opinions with much respect.  In fact, they seemed to have it in for him.  Maybe he just got sick of the **** and left.  I'd rather it was the latter, but that still sucks.   I'll agree with amycox67, he seemed to me to be a very nice, smart man.
9/29/2012 11:05 PM
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mixtroy
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Here's another example of why I pay no attention to the fielding update regarding how modern fielders are supposed to field worse if they're playing behind deadball era pitchers.  I had 2008 Jed Lowrie playing SS at Hilltop with a starting rotation of 10 Russ Ford, 08 Joss and 09 Summers - all deadballers right?  But guess what?  Jed Lowrie had a fielding pct of 1.000.  Not one error!!!!  In other words, don't make it complicated when its not.  If a guy can field, he's gonna field, regardless of whom he plays behind.
10/13/2012 10:02 PM
zubinsum
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Posted by mixtroy on 10/13/2012 10:02:00 PM (view original):
Here's another example of why I pay no attention to the fielding update regarding how modern fielders are supposed to field worse if they're playing behind deadball era pitchers.  I had 2008 Jed Lowrie playing SS at Hilltop with a starting rotation of 10 Russ Ford, 08 Joss and 09 Summers - all deadballers right?  But guess what?  Jed Lowrie had a fielding pct of 1.000.  Not one error!!!!  In other words, don't make it complicated when its not.  If a guy can field, he's gonna field, regardless of whom he plays behind.
Well at the extreme, that is what happens.  A fielder that has a FP of 1.000 will never make an error no matter who he plays behind.  But as you move down the FP scale, fielders are more affected by pitching.  This is why I think for most teams '98 Vizquel is a better shortstop than '99 Vizquel.

10/14/2012 1:13 AM
mixtroy
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Ok. Lets look at a non-1.000 FP infielder. On that same team, I also have 99 Jose Vidro playing 2B, who has a performance history of fielding at a .978 pct.  However, on my team with 10 Ford, 08 Joss and 09 Summers, after 96 games started at 2B, he's fielding even BETTER - .981 fld. pct.  

Then, on another team -again at HIlltop - he's fielding at .983 at 2B after 108 games started there.

These are just two examples, as I've had several other instances where modern fielders fielded at or better than their histories behind deadball staffs, which is why I believe that if there truly IS some sort of fielding curve in this regard, it's negligble at best. IMO, its just another thing about this game that they put out there to make it more complicated than it actually is.  It's not 'rocket science' as some make it out to be or have you believe.  It's about hitting and pitching which I learned a long time ago by the esteemed Mr. Boogerlips who, quiet as its kept, is really a nice guy (Shhhhh, don't tell anybody that. lol).  You can have all of the greatest fielders in the world, but if your team can't hit or pitch, you're likely to be in for a long season. 
10/14/2012 8:24 AM
zubinsum
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Posted by mixtroy on 10/14/2012 8:24:00 AM (view original):
Ok. Lets look at a non-1.000 FP infielder. On that same team, I also have 99 Jose Vidro playing 2B, who has a performance history of fielding at a .978 pct.  However, on my team with 10 Ford, 08 Joss and 09 Summers, after 96 games started at 2B, he's fielding even BETTER - .981 fld. pct.  

Then, on another team -again at HIlltop - he's fielding at .983 at 2B after 108 games started there.

These are just two examples, as I've had several other instances where modern fielders fielded at or better than their histories behind deadball staffs, which is why I believe that if there truly IS some sort of fielding curve in this regard, it's negligble at best. IMO, its just another thing about this game that they put out there to make it more complicated than it actually is.  It's not 'rocket science' as some make it out to be or have you believe.  It's about hitting and pitching which I learned a long time ago by the esteemed Mr. Boogerlips who, quiet as its kept, is really a nice guy (Shhhhh, don't tell anybody that. lol).  You can have all of the greatest fielders in the world, but if your team can't hit or pitch, you're likely to be in for a long season. 

Honestly, I haven't done much reasearch on this given that WIS has given us infromation on how.  My thoughts are as follows: Vidro is a .982# feilder, his perfromance history is slightly lower .978.  You are getting slightly better using deadballers.  I hypothecate that you are getting lucky, though not tremendously so.  If you really do have an all deadball staff centered close to 1910, I am guessing Vidro's FP should land at .972 or so by season's end.   

10/15/2012 1:17 AM
mixtroy
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Good hypothesis,..but I hope not!!!! Ha ha ha!!! I'll keep you informed.
10/15/2012 9:43 AM
jjgreen14
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Saw this thread again, thought of JohnGPF and decided to chime in.

The actual fielding system just smoothed out fielding so that fielders in the same grade fielded similarly and tried to prevent the extremes in range from resulting in 100+ plays.

From what I remember John discussing was that he wished the fielding update had fielders normalize according to the pitcher on the mound so that in your example Vidro would field like a 2B from 1910 when Ford was on the mound and so on. That does not occur currently.
10/19/2012 1:00 PM
dahsdebater
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Yes it does...

Fielding is now normalized based on the fielder's season, the pitcher's season, and the batter's season.

10/19/2012 3:56 PM
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