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Incomprehensible New Salaries Topic

10/26/2009 10:40 AM
First level response from CS was ineffectual (person thought I was misreading the salaries and pointed out that 1920 Ruth costs > $14M).

I've asked for another look.

Have also done some more digging. The threshold seems to be around 200PA. Below that and salaries are way out of whack. Above 200 and things seem relatively OK.
10/26/2009 12:13 PM
If you are willing to forfeit stolen bases you can play Ted Williams, or any hitter at catcher and give up an average of one passed ball per game and the error rate will be on par with any other average catcher.

It's true.
10/26/2009 12:17 PM
Yes, the A+ arms are overpriced... but everyone has the same problem. You just need to decide whether you want to pay it or not.
10/26/2009 3:22 PM
The A+ arms are only really overpriced on the low-PA guys. Full season guys like Rodriguez, Bench, etc are priced very reasonably in my opinion. The below 200 PA players are way out of whack.
10/26/2009 3:32 PM
I definitely agree with contrarian on both points - some of the low-PA catchers seem to have unreasonably high prices per PA. You could argue that this actually makes sense since some owners would bring such catchers in for 3 defensive innings a game with 1 PA. I certainly wouldn't buy that...

But there are definitely some very good arms out there for what I would consider to be reasonable prices. '74 Tenace and '75 Carter are both under $4 million for full seasons of what are I believe to be 45% and 49% CS rates, respectively. Tenace hit .211 but with a lot of walks and some power; Carter is a solid all-around hitter with a few fewer PAs. Do they cost more than many other hitters with their offensive stats? Of course. But the catcher's arm is by far the most important defensive stat on a team. Some teams' offenses are almost totally shut down by a catcher with a great arm. You should have to pay for that arm.
10/26/2009 5:00 PM
it probably cut down how many owners drafted an average arm catcher with a A+ backup catcher solely to match up with speed teams. now i can see sb's being more of a factor than they were before the update.
10/26/2009 9:51 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By grizzly_one on 10/26/2009
It pains me that 71 Munson jumped so much. But 74 Tenace looks like an extreme cookie to me.

10/27/2009 9:54 AM
With the recent salary update, we adjusted many pieces of the formula. One piece included addressing players that excelled in one category but were lousy in others. Think pinch runners, strong defensive catchers, excellent pinch-hitters, etc. These were the types of players being used over and over again because of their obvious "cookie" strength.

That's why you're seeing some of the best armed, weak hitting catchers increase in price. Their new salary is more inline with their value in the sim.

While their $/PA is higher then some other players, their salary remains much lower.
10/27/2009 10:25 AM
Tom, I appreciate your taking the time to respond to this discussion. Thank you for doing so.

I confess I'm still baffled though. The salaries for these players makes no sense to me.

Just one more time, let's compare two players.

2004 Pat Borders (partial season with Seattle):
AVG# = .186
OBP# = .201
SLG# = .262

2001 Shawn Wooten
AVG# = .310
OBP# = .330
SLG# = .442

Wooten is a much better offensive player, and appears to be at least as good defensively as Borders. Wooten has more than 4x the number of PA. Yet Wooten's salary is only $360K more than Borders.

Borders's $/PA = $20,628
Wooten's $/PA = $6,459

Borders costs more than 3x per PA than Wooten. If Borders's salary is "more inline with his value in the SIM" then why doesn't Wooten cost $4.5M or so? It seems like Wooten is an incredible bargain by comparison.
10/27/2009 10:56 AM
Sounds to me like A+ arm might be adding to price at a flat rate regardless of PAs...
10/27/2009 11:46 AM
and yet how do we explain that the 1975 Gary Carter is at $3,936,483 with his A+ arm and .49 RL CS%? He weighs in at $6672 per PA and can stroke it on the offense. Maybe the A+ arm is worth a set flat amount. Never thought of that before.
10/27/2009 11:48 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By grizzly_one on 10/26/2009
It pains me that 71 Munson jumped so much. But 74 Tenace looks like an extreme cookie to me.

I think he has been. I've used him many times in HR friendly parks where he can keep the go go teams at bay.
10/27/2009 11:53 AM
Guys like the '75 Carter, the '73 Fosse, the '82 Boone, '64 Rodgers, '79 Newman, '74 Tenace, and '67 Casanova would all seem to be very attractive values at their under $7000 $/PA coupled with thie 45% or better CS%. Carter, Newman, Tenace, and to a degree Casanova have good power. Carter and Casanova have decent normalized AVGs and plugged deep in a line up won't tire all too much.
10/27/2009 11:53 AM
all i know is i've already found wooten to be very useful, and a bargain. i guess i'll enjoy him before the next update takes his cookie status away.
10/27/2009 11:56 AM
another guy I'd like to try out is the '69 Bench at $10k per plate appearance. he has a 117 AVG+, .277 AVG # (vs. a .270 RLAVG), 26 taters, and throws out 57% of attempted base stealers.
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