What are you reading? Topic

I just finished Fritz Peterson's "When the Yankees were on the Fritz: reflections on the Horace Clarke Era".

A few interesting facts in the book:

Lifetime ERA pitching in the old Yankee Stadium:

Fritz Peterson 2.52
Whitey Ford 2.58
Mariano Rivera 2.61
Mel Stottlemyre 2.67....

Roger Clemens 3.53
Andy Pettitte 3.70


A big theme is that during these terrible (if you were a Yankees fan as I was growing up) years, Yankees pitchers were always furious with the mediocrity of the position players excluding Murcer, Munson, later Nettles (and Roy White as a batter).

They were especially angry perpetually at Jerry Kenney, Horace Clarke and Roy White, in that order. Kenney was just awful all around, and avoided hard hit batted balls, jumping out of the way of them. Clarke, as is well known, would be in another time zone when runners barreled into second to break up double plays. White, who Peterson now says played his whole career with a partly dislocated throwing arm, explaining his weak throwing ability from left field, mainly gets ire for also not compensating, but compounding the problem by playing an extraordinarily deep left field (and left field in the original Yankee Stadium was the Grand Canyon).

They made a pact - Mel Stottlemyre, Peterson, Steve Kline and others, to hit any of these three if they ever came up to bat against them if one or the other had been traded. Peterson carried this pact out at least once.
3/18/2017 6:44 AM
Its time to stop picking on Horace Clarke, were the other 2nd basemen of that ERA really that much better than him???

If you use WIS salaries as a guide you would be surprised how high he is rated (of course he has all those at bats)

As far as Jerry Kenney goes, if he were a great player they never would have made the Gene Michael trade and the Yanks of the late 90's might not have happened.
3/19/2017 1:40 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 10/27/2009 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Joe DiMaggio, The Hero's Life, Richard Ben Cramer
I am re reading Baseball in 41 by the above author, great book,
He makes the argument that the 36-39 yankee dynasty was better than the 49-53 dynasty
He alludes to Luis Tiant's actual age,
He was 19 at time and discusses what it was like and how the world events affected his life
and the forgotten pennant race between the Cards and the dodgers.
3/19/2017 1:58 PM
Posted by mlent on 3/19/2017 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Its time to stop picking on Horace Clarke, were the other 2nd basemen of that ERA really that much better than him???

If you use WIS salaries as a guide you would be surprised how high he is rated (of course he has all those at bats)

As far as Jerry Kenney goes, if he were a great player they never would have made the Gene Michael trade and the Yanks of the late 90's might not have happened.
I agree - I grew up watching those teams and suffering through those years - that it was not mainly Horace Clarke's fault. The list of worse players on the Yankees in those years is very long.

He was not a bad player, - I have to look up double plays by teams in those years to see if Peterson's view is accurate.

As to who was better - Dick McAuliffe and Glenn Beckert were probably around his same quality defensively, maybe Joe Morgan too, but offensively they were all usually much better (Beckert less often). Davey Johnson was way superior to Horace Clarke. Mazeroski was nearing the end of his career but was about the best ever defensively, and in general better offensively than Clarke. Tommy Helms was more in the Beckert category, a little better defensively I think, not as good offensively.

But it is true that a lot of teams did not really ever find a serious second baseman: I don't think Oakland ever really had one in the 60s and 70s, nor did teams like the Angels and Brewers and Indians that I remember (I may be forgetting someone good that is not coming to mind - Garner maybe, but he is later). The Cardinals have Javier for a while, better, but not for that long, but I don't think the Giants or Dodgers were well set at 2B - the latter only with Lopes later in the 70s. The Red Sox usually had someone but not necessarily someone better. The Mets won two pennants with a platoon at 2B.

Gene Michael was a better GM than a player, that is for sure. But that is not a high standard, though he helped build the great 1990s team as GM.

Let's just say that I remember seeing Willie Randolph as 2B on Opening Day 1976 and feeling like the world had changed for the better.
3/19/2017 8:12 PM
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Re: Old Professor's post, part having to do with 2nd base.....

Interesting....interesting enough that I couldn’t remember who all the guys who played 2nd were, so I looked them up. Here are some of the guys who played 2nd on the teams you mentioned. I didn’t list all the players who overlapped at 2nd, but listed a guy if there was a significant platoon....but, with the exception of STL, you right . . . its was a revolving door at 2nd....

I also added others teams to your list to see if perhaps this was just a trend of the time period, and because I was looking at 20 years (1960-1980). Seems as if 7-9 was not unusual. The 11 for Giants, White Sox and Astros were high, and the 4 for STL and Pirates were low. To give you more to think about, maybe this has something to do with a team’s record?

Below is a summary of # of 2nd basemen and then a list for each team.....

Summary: Oakland/KC (8); Brewers (7); Indians (9); Giants (11); Dodgers (9); STL (4); additional: Red Sox (9); LA Angels (7); White Sox (11); Phillies (6); Cubs (9); Detroit (8); Braves (9); Twins (7); orioles (6); Reds (6); Pirates (4); Astros/Colts (11).

Oakland...well, in the 1960s, they were the KC Athletics.....these guys could also play other positions: 1959-1963, Jerry Lumpe; 1964-1974, Dick Green/John Donaldson (67-68), Tim Cullen (72); 1976-77, Phil Gardner; 1977, Marty Perez; 1978-79, Mike Green; 1980, Jeff Cox.....

Brewers....who in 1969 were the Seattle Pilots....1969, John Donaldson (who was in Oakland later); 1970-71, Ted Kubiak; 1972, Ron Theobald; 1973-1975, Pedro Garcia; 1976, Tim Johnson; 1977, Don Money ; 1978-1980, Paul Molitor (who then moved to 3b and DH in 1981 on).

Indians....1960, Ken Aspromonte; 61-62, Johnny Temple; 1963-64, Woody Held; 1965-67 Pedro Gonzalez (former Yankee); 1966-1968, Chico Salmon; 1967-1969, Vern Fuller; 1970-1973, Eddie Leon; 1972-1975, 1980, Jack Brohamer; 1975-80, Duane Kuiper

SF Giants....1960-61, Don Blasingame; 1962-64, Chuck Hiller; 1964-66, Hal Lanier (who became SS); 1967, 1970-74 , Tito Fuentes; 1968-70, Ron Hunt; 1975-77, Derrel Thomas; 1976, Marty Perez; 1977, Bob Andrews; 1978, Bill Madlock; 1979, Joe Strain; 1980, Rennie Stennett

LA Dodgers.....1960-61, Charlie Neal; 1960- 66, Jim Gilliam; 1964, Nate Oliver; 1965-1972, Jim Lefebvre; 1967, Ron Hunt; 1968, Paul Popovich; 1969-71, Ted Sizemore; 1972, Lee Lacy; 1973-1981, Davey Lopes.

STL Cardinals....1960-1971, Jullian Javier; 1971-1975, Ted Sizemore; 1976-79, Mike Tyson; 1979-1980, Ken Oberkfell (who then moved to 3b).

OTHER TEAMS.....

Red Sox....1960, Pete Runnels; 1961-63, Chuck Schilling; 1964, Daulton Jones; 1965, Felix Mantilla; 1966, George Smith; 1967-70 Mike Andrews; 1971-75, Doug Griffin; 1976-77 Denny Doyle; 1978-1983, Jerry Remy

LA/California Angles....1961, Ken Aspromonte; 1962-63, Billy Moran; 1964-68, Bobby Knoop; 1969-73, Sandy Alomar; 1974, Denny Doyle; 1975-77, Jerry Remy; 1978-86, Bobby Grich

White Sox.....1960-63, Nellie Fox; 1964, Al Weiss; 1965-67 Don Buford; 1967, Wayne Causey; 1968, Sandy Alomar; 1969-70, Bobby Knoop; 1971-72, Mike Andrews; 1973-75, 1977-78, Jorge Orta; 1976, Jack Brohamer; 1979, Alan Bannister; 1980, Jim Morrison

Phillies....1960-1966, Tony Taylor; 1965-69 Cookie Rojas; 1970-73, Denny Doyle; 1974-76, Dave Cash; 1977-78, Ted Sizemore; 1979-82, Manny Trillo

Cubs....1960, Jerry Kindall; 1961, Don Zimmer; 1962-63, Ken Hubbs; 1964, Joey Amalfitano; 1965-1973, Glenn Beckert; 1974, Vic Harris; 1975-79, Manny Trillo; 1979, Ted Sizemore; 1980, Mike Tyson

Braves....1960, Chuck Cottier; 1961-1965, Frank Bolling; 1966-67, Woody Woodward; 1968-72, Felix Milan; 1973-74, Davey Johnson; 1975, Marty Perez; 1976-77, Rob Gilbreath; ;1978, Jerry Royster; 1979-1987, Glen Hubbard

Detroit....1960, Frank Bolling; 1961-63, Jake Wood; 1964-66, Jerry Lumpe; 1967-73 , Dick McAuliffe; 1974-75, Gary Sutherland; 1976, Pedro Garcia; 1977, Tito Fuentes; 1978-1992, Lou Whitaker

Twins/Senators....1960, Billy Gardner; 1961, Billy Martin; 1962-64, 1966, Bernie Allen; 1965, Jerry Kindall; 1967-1975, Rod Carew; 1976-77, Bob Randall; 1978-1981, Rob Wilfong

Orioles....1960, Marv Breeding; 1961-65, Jerry Adair; 1966-1972, Davey Johnson; 1973-76, Bobby Grich; 1977, Billy Smith; 1978-1984, Rick Dauer

Reds.....1960, Billy Martin; 1961-62, Don Blasingame; 1963-1966, Pete Rose; 1967-71, Tommy Helms; 1972-1979, Joe Morgan; 1980, Junior Kennedy

Pirates....1960-1970, Bill Mazerowski; 1971-73, Dave Cash; 1974-79, Rennie Stennett; 1980-Phil Gardner

Colts/Astros....1962, Joey Amalfitano; 1963, Ernie Fazio; 1953, Jerry Temple; 1964, Nellie Fox; 1965-1971, Joe Morgan; 1972-1974, Tommy Helms; 1975-76, Rob Andrews; 1977-79, Art Howe; 1979-80, Rafael Landestoy; 1979, Julio Gonzalez; 1980, Joe Morgan
3/20/2017 3:30 PM
ha, my new southie!

Roberto Bolano

best love story in a long long time

book's called Return, story's called Joanna Silvestri

but the whole damn thing is pretty A plussish
4/6/2017 10:51 AM
I read Bolano's collection Last Evenings on Earth a few years ago, and really liked it.

I recently finished The End of the Affair (1951) by Graham Greene. It was okay, but a bit prissy for a novel about erotic love and adultery. I guess 66 years ago it passed for raunchy.
4/6/2017 1:17 PM
not to criticize but every generation thinks theyre sexier than past generations/ i dont think thats true at all/especially this one with women walking down the street stooped over peering into phone/not sexy at all
4/6/2017 11:42 PM
his thing is brutality and love

my thing is why 20M died in WWII and what they died for



freedom is not in his arsenal
4/7/2017 9:48 PM
I just finished Reiner Stach's three volume Franz Kafka biography: The Early Years (2016), The Decisive Years (2013), The Years of Insight (2015). Best biography I've ever read, comprehensive and moving, reads like a novel with very few lulls in its nearly 2,000 total pages. I'm a big Kafka fan, but even if you've got only a passing familiarity with his writing there's a lot here to recommend, including Stach's ability to bring to life Kafka's place and time (central Europe, 1880s to 1920s, covering the decline of the Austro-Hungarian empire, WWI, and the post-war rise of anti-Semitism).

One great thing about reading in the Internet age is how quickly you can research any reference you come across. For example, Stach frequently mentions Kafka's love of early film, especially slapstick comedy, and I was able to see clips of most of these films on YouTube. At one point Kakfa was obsessed with an actress who performed something called the "gaucho dance" in a controversial 1910 movie. Yup, YouTube has it!
5/15/2017 11:10 AM (edited)
here's my theory. and there's no russians jews dialectics or novelists involved

the moors swept up into the underbelly

mixed in a liberally unfortunate way with the knuckle breaking catholics

took sail

made messicans don juans

pol pots and tin pots

no humor no humor no slap stick at all


kafka with a chestful of medals is a pornograph i'd like to see



Joseph Conrad if you have to know
5/15/2017 11:36 AM (edited)
these should be collected and published.
5/15/2017 11:32 AM
5/15/2017 11:47 AM
Collected and published, not collected and punished!
5/15/2017 11:50 AM
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