Quote: Originally Posted By boogerlips on 11/24/2009

I keep waiting for the day when major league pitching coaches realize that simply refusing to give up walks is what separates the men from the boys. Of course I'm still waiting for the day that Tony LaRussa stops batting his worst hitter in the 2 spot and costing us eight games a year, but I digress....

I did a Wis Search for all pitchers who had at least 125IP, and 1.5BB/9 or less. 326 seasons show up (minus clone seasons). Only 48 pitchers had an ERA higher than 4. Greg Maddux appears on this list 5 times (his last 5 seasons in fact). Bob Tewksbury, David Wells, Robin Roberts, and Lew Burdette appear 3 times. 17 of the 48 seasons are by the previous 4 pitchers. The highest ERA of the 48 seasons was a 5.31 by Tewk in a season he gave up 1.27BB/9. Most of the group is more towards the 4.00ERA end, with only 7 players having an ERA higher than 4.80.

A lot of people think Maddux had some mysterious genius. I think the majority of his "genius" was realizing what others refuse to. Walks are bad. Seems like 99% of pitchers think that they are giving in to a hitter if they don't nibble at the strikezone. Make 'em hit it!

Boog, the vast majority of pitchers aren't stupid; they know BBs are bad. It is just they don't have the requisite control to always throw a pitch in the k-zone. Guys like Maddux and even Tewks had freakish control of their pitches. They are the exception-- not the rule.

So say there's a runner on 3rd, 1 out, and the count is 0-2. It got there on 4 straight foul balls; the last one was fouled straight back and it's clear the hitter is getting closer to it. You wouldn't ever want the pitcher to try to throw one out of the zone and see if he can get the guy to chase?

Definitely wouldn't have a guy intentionally throw a ball on 2-2 and certainly not 3-2... At 0-2 though I'd like to have a typical pitcher always throw low in the zone. Half the time throw a fastball for a low strike and the other half throw a slider or splitter or whatever your best breaking pitch is to drop down out of the zone. Make the hitter guess. Alternatively, if a guy has a really nasty pitch that he doesn't control as well as his usual pitches it's a good time to toss it; similarly, if he can reach back and grab 4 extra mph on the heater in exchange for some control, 0-2 might be a good time to do that as well...

Quote: Originally Posted By truemen on 11/25/2009I can honestly say that I have never walked anybody

I can honestly say I never got anybody out. In my only appearance as a pitcher I through 26 balls in a row including a Lindy McDaniel high leg kick toss that sailed over the backstop. My uncle who had been in the Braves minor league system decided to teach me how to throw a curve ball and screw ball before my pitching debut. It didn't work out too well...

The truly remarkable thing about Maddux, was of course very few walks, but very few HR's. You can throw a few years of Kevin Brown in there too.

Quote: Originally Posted By winnetka1 on 11/25/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By truemen on 11/25/2009
I can honestly say that I have never walked anybody.

I can honestly say I never got anybody out. In my only appearance as a pitcher I through 26 balls in a row including a Lindy McDaniel high leg kick toss that sailed over the backstop. My uncle who had been in the Braves minor league system decided to teach me how to throw a curve ball and screw ball before my pitching debut. It didn't work out too well..

I pitched a third of an inning in my career, got the guy to pop out. I tried real hard, but everything I threw was high as well..

the hitters are so good that a pitcher cannot throw as many strikes as he would like if he plays division II ball or higher. Unless the pitcher is a freak like maddux or tewks. by the way, herzog didn't like tewks and delayed his call-up because he threw too slow (83 fastball). one of the only times herzog admitted a mistake.

a pitcher cannot throw the ball in the center of the plate if he makes any team past high school without getting hammered. most managers hate walks, but they also hate losing by double-digits and, for a pitcher, it would be a very short career. a pitcher also has to have movement on the ball. velocity and movement will perhaps cause a hitter to hit the ball 1/4 of an inch from the sweet spot, which is the difference between a pop-up and a crusher. a one inch difference is a miss. not much room for error on either side.

i'm sure you all realize how great these guys are. most all-state high school players and all-american college players do not even make the major leagues...and they were great ballplayers.

I'd like to know how all this translates to the sim. My 06 Halladay with RL BB/9 of 1.4 walked 6 in seven innings the other day. Otherwise, he's averaged a little under 3 per 9 innings.