its one thing for a d1 rookie to reach out for a little information regarding recruiting, when they are clueless and looking for some direction. but for an a+ prestige d1 program with 3 final fours, 2 title game appearances, and a championship in the last 5 years to do something like this... to suggest another coach go after a prospect of COLORADO, who happens to be one of his biggest threats in recruiting... its just ridiculous.

im not sure how people take pride in accomplishing something that could be a great achievement, when they aren't playing by the rules. i would think that would prompt top programs to keep things above board! imagine if a guy like OR started trading recruiting information under the table to gain an upper hand... i don't know if he'd lose again! so it seems to me there is an obvious increase in responsibility and decrease in gray area when you are talking about this kind of stuff with A prestige programs.
12/14/2009 11:26 AM
You know I happen to have been on the short end of the stick in recruiting and I thought I was helping the guy out. Clearly Schwartz has problems with how that went down. There was no collusion--just some feedback from what I would do if I were him. I don't control any of the teams I made comments on and if I had to do it all over again (and if Schwartz wasn't such a DB)--I would.

Honestly if anyone has a problem with what I did--they can man up and we can talk about it. Or they can throw it up on the board like Oregon did and wait for a lynch mob to come and help out.

Regardless, check the rules--I didn't do anything that I wouldn't be comfortable doing again. When I start to actually collude with other coaches then feel free to pull out your pichforks.

In the end--Oregon loses big time, screws up his season and then tries to throw me under the bus for attempting to help him out...whatever. Lesson learned. Enjoy your season Schwartz!
12/14/2009 11:32 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 12/14/2009its one thing for a d1 rookie to reach out for a little information regarding recruiting, when they are clueless and looking for some direction. but for an a+ prestige d1 program with 3 final fours, 2 title game appearances, and a championship in the last 5 years to do something like this... to suggest another coach go after a prospect of COLORADO, who happens to be one of his biggest threats in recruiting... its just ridiculous.

im not sure how people take pride in accomplishing something that could be a great achievement, when they aren't playing by the rules. i would think that would prompt top programs to keep things above board! imagine if a guy like OR started trading recruiting information under the table to gain an upper hand... i don't know if he'd lose again! so it seems to me there is an obvious increase in responsibility and decrease in gray area when you are talking about this kind of stuff with A prestige programs
Yeah--I was totally concerned about messing with CO! That's ludicrous--all the players I highlighted if you decide to look at it objectively (given which recruiting cycle everyone was in) were the players Schwartz had the best shot at picking up. Did you happen to think I was also trying to screw Nevada and Texas A&M etc...?

Was I even battling Colorado for any of his recruits...no!

Since it worked out so well for Schwartz--why don't you evaluate my suggestions on results.

12/14/2009 11:37 AM
I have a definite problem with this type of recruiting. Telling another coach to try and go after other teams players. Thats just terrible. I dont know how anyone can think this is fair play.
12/14/2009 11:44 AM
i can't agree on the colorado thing johnner. i played at colorado in the same world you are in not that long ago. there are not many teams to worry about out there when you have good prestige. there is no way i would have ever suggested to anybody to jump on a colorado state player. it would so obviously benefit me... you are in a very similar situation, i don't know how you can suggest the opposite?
12/14/2009 11:53 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By gillispie on 12/14/2009i can't agree on the colorado thing johnner. i played at colorado in the same world you are in not that long ago. there are not many teams to worry about out there when you have good prestige. there is no way i would have ever suggested to anybody to jump on a colorado state player. it would so obviously benefit me... you are in a very similar situation, i don't know how you can suggest the opposite
Agreed, except that at one point Colorado had about 20 guys considering him...he was using the shot gun strategy, and I doubt that johnner meant anything malicious by that. And I don't think anyone should ever jump on Colorado State players or suggest the same that would be wrong and I would be up in arms!!!
12/14/2009 12:04 PM
I have often thought about sending out the same type of sitemail that johnner actually sent out.

You're in the middle of recruiting and some school that has no business competing with you gets into a battle with you. You know that you will ultimately win the battle and all that it is going to do is cost both of you a lot of wasted money and that its probably going to hurt the other school more than it will hurt you. I have wanted to send out that e-mail, which would clearly benefit the receiver (which is what would have happened to Schwartz if he had listened).

But I haven't sent that e-mail because it doesn't seem right. First of all, while it would benefit the other person, let's be honest, its not like it wouldn't benefit me too. I get the other guy to back off and its more money that I can direct elsewhere. The fact that I'm going to benefit from doing is reason enough not to do it.

Also, its a more than a little condesending. I can't make the decision as to whether or not someone should be competing with me-- even if I know that I'm going to win. Who am I to tell someone how to recruit?

There are also other schools involved. If I tell someone that they're wasting their time going up against me to get them to go against someone else (much less directing them to other schools), it doesn't seem fair to those schools. I know that I would be ****** if someone pointed me out as a potential target.

I don't know why johnner did what he did. Maybe he was trying to help Schwartz out. Maybe he was trying to get Schwartz off his back for that recruit. Maybe he was trying to screw CU. Who knows?

The thing is that there is enough ambiguity in the situation to say that it was probably a bad idea (even if his intentions were good). If he was just trying to educate Schwartz (which I think he was) he could have sent him a site-mail after it was all over to go over the situation and I don't think that he would have received any negative feedback at all from the board.
12/14/2009 12:09 PM
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/14/2009 12:12 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By johnner26 on 12/14/2009
You know I happen to have been on the short end of the stick in recruiting and I thought I was helping the guy out. Clearly Schwartz has problems with how that went down. There was no collusion--just some feedback from what I would do if I were him. I don't control any of the teams I made comments on and if I had to do it all over again (and if Schwartz wasn't such a DB)--I would.

Honestly if anyone has a problem with what I did--they can man up and we can talk about it. Or they can throw it up on the board like Oregon did and wait for a lynch mob to come and help out.

Regardless, check the rules--I didn't do anything that I wouldn't be comfortable doing again. When I start to actually collude with other coaches then feel free to pull out your pichforks.

In the end--Oregon loses big time, screws up his season and then tries to throw me under the bus for attempting to help him out...whatever. Lesson learned. Enjoy your season Schwartz!

Schwartz doesn't need a lynchmob. You've proved yourself worthy of a hanging all by yourself.
12/14/2009 12:17 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By gillispie on 12/14/2009i can't agree on the colorado thing johnner. i played at colorado in the same world you are in not that long ago. there are not many teams to worry about out there when you have good prestige. there is no way i would have ever suggested to anybody to jump on a colorado state player. it would so obviously benefit me... you are in a very similar situation, i don't know how you can suggest the opposite
Look--if were actually competing with Colorado for any players, I could totally see your point. I was looking at it from Oregon's perspective (and even spent some money on FFS to help him out) by letting him know if I were him would he should be going after. It just so happens 1--only 1 of the players that I mentioned was being pursued by Colorado and Co was over extended in terms of geography and it weighed heavily in Oregon's favor. That's why I brought it up.

I can swear that there was no bias or prejudice against Colorado. I wish the guy luck, he's got quite an uphill battle. You have recruited with an A+ prestige, you know a C+ doesn't even factor into it--it's not on the same level. I'll be the first guy to hope that Aegms actually gets Colorado competitive again. That's what this game is about, competition, not domination. Check the CC for the Big 12. I believe the folks here in the MWC were concerned that Markshir had checked out and even said that wasn't a good thing.

If you aren't looking at the whole picture, you aren't seeing it all.
12/14/2009 12:20 PM
I have one rule about communication during recruiting: DONT
When I get site mails I respond that I will talk after recruiting. When people say things on the board they are ignored.
Anything else is open to criticism.
12/14/2009 12:22 PM
johnner, are you really still defending yourself? You came off as an a-hole in the sitemails and you're coming off as an even bigger a-hole in this thread.
12/14/2009 12:24 PM
No problem from me johnner. I'm planning on being here for a while, anyway. Schwartz has a unique recruiting style that can get you riled up at times. Since I was at Oregon State, I tried to learn how to deal with it. He usually jumps in about the last 24 hours of recruiting. That's just his style so more power to him! He usually kicked my rear in recruiting.

Believe me johnner and I weren't in any competition and won't be for a while.

12/14/2009 12:27 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By pdanao on 12/14/2009
I have often thought about sending out the same type of sitemail that johnner actually sent out.

You're in the middle of recruiting and some school that has no business competing with you gets into a battle with you. You know that you will ultimately win the battle and all that it is going to do is cost both of you a lot of wasted money and that its probably going to hurt the other school more than it will hurt you. I have wanted to send out that e-mail, which would clearly benefit the receiver (which is what would have happened to Schwartz if he had listened).

But I haven't sent that e-mail because it doesn't seem right. First of all, while it would benefit the other person, let's be honest, its not like it wouldn't benefit me too. I get the other guy to back off and its more money that I can direct elsewhere. The fact that I'm going to benefit from doing is reason enough not to do it.

Also, its a more than a little condesending. I can't make the decision as to whether or not someone should be competing with me-- even if I know that I'm going to win. Who am I to tell someone how to recruit?

There are also other schools involved. If I tell someone that they're wasting their time going up against me to get them to go against someone else (much less directing them to other schools), it doesn't seem fair to those schools. I know that I would be ****** if someone pointed me out as a potential target.

I don't know why johnner did what he did. Maybe he was trying to help Schwartz out. Maybe he was trying to get Schwartz off his back for that recruit. Maybe he was trying to screw CU. Who knows?

The thing is that there is enough ambiguity in the situation to say that it was probably a bad idea (even if his intentions were good). If he was just trying to educate Schwartz (which I think he was) he could have sent him a site-mail after it was all over to go over the situation and I don't think that he would have received any negative feedback at all from the board.

I see your point. I agree completely. If everyone has a problem with the way I approached it (while I don't think I did anything wrong)--I'll happily make sure I keep my mouth shut and go about my business even if that means someone else loses out big time...see Oregon this year. Although let me say this: I don't think there is nearly enough trash talking or talking in general on WIS. All of us who play ball know that's part of the game. So really I don't know that I feel badly about Schwartz--he's just playing ball...very badly.
12/14/2009 12:27 PM
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/14/2009 12:30 PM
◂ Prev 1|2|3|4...14 Next ▸

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.