just another - Page 12 - Hoops Dynasty

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In Zs defense regarding recruiting for the two teams hes handled it with the utmost fairness possible and even to the detriment of his own Illinois team as he spent more time trying to get it right for the other person. He's personally sitemailed me complaining about having to do it because he feels it takes to much time and takes away from his own recruiting effor but did so to help Indian who loves this game and is currently at BT.

As for Fregoe's point --- I have to agree with him. Not saying or accusing Zhawks of trying to collude as he seems to always be one of the sticklers for the rules and in general someone constantly trying to improve the game. But Fregoe is right, there is no reason for someone to say anything at all during recruiting. What might be obvious to some is not always obvious to everyone. And not everyone puts the same effort into recruiting which may include checking what teams might be vulnerable because they are engaged in a battle. It would **** me off if I was in a battle for a recruit; and someone came into our CC to point it out; then suddenly my other recruits are being sniped. There is simply no reason to make comments during recruiting.

12/15/2009 12:17 PM

mlatsko1

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Funny you mention this. Because the subsequent losses of players after my own division-mate, recruiting for someone in another conference, started a massive battle, were generated by someone posting a comment on a coaches corner.

12/15/2009 12:28 PM

zhawks

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Mlat, I am not going to copy that post, too big.

I completely agree with you that the reason may have been him jumping on him did make other coaches jump on you, for that I am sorry. But what would you have had me do? uch had me that Wells was his top target and so I made him my top target. The first 2 cycles we were both on him, yes you did beat me out until the next night when I put more into him. I did not use uconn in anyway to help Illinois, although I do understand how that could be taken.

As for Providence, I did ask Mike to find anyone else before me. As of the day he was leaving he sent me a message telling me he didn't have anyone for HD. That was it. What was I suppose to do? Let them be SIM ran? What would you have done in my shoes? I have a friend who messaged me saying "I am off to basic and don't have anyone for Prov" - We talked via snail mail about the available recruits and I went off of his strategy.

To the effect of me using UC to cripple PSU, there is nothing I can say to that. If that is they type of person you perceive me to be then so be it.

12/15/2009 12:28 PM

vandydave

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Quote: Originally Posted By jskenner on 12/15/2009There is no way, NO POSSIBLE LOGICAL WAY, that by receiving a message (via either site mail or CC or public forum) from another coach, no matter what that message is, and then backing off a related recruit, the coach backing off is colluding. He never communicated in any way, never made any agreement, never colluded with the coach sending the message. He simply received UNSOLICITED information and acted on it. No matter what opinion anyone has re: the appropriateness of the message-sender, to think the receiver colludes by "backing off" is simply and completely illogical

inaction could be considered passively colluding if the sender of the sitemail is not reported to wis.

12/15/2009 12:32 PM

zhawks

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All of this talk about how bad of a person I am is really making me wonder if I should continue with my WIS career. I go in trying to be helpful to some people who I barely even know and end up being called out as a cheater. I will have to re-think if I should continue with WIS.

12/15/2009 12:35 PM

chief2677

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I think we should have a tag team cage match...johnner and fregoe versus tracyr and zhawks...no holds barred, to the pain!

12/15/2009 12:35 PM

grecianfox

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I think it would be tracyr and fregoe v. johnner and zhawks

12/15/2009 12:43 PM

mlatsko1

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Find someone to do it. It's not that complicated. I've turned down other coaches before and I can only recall once where I actually recruited for someone in the same division/world. And I only did this because my squad didn't have any scholarships. Again, I only made the statement because you're on someone else for doing it.

As for the situation, it's being handled. The issue started with you/UConn, but there was a lot more that went into it. Just losing Wells wouldn't have been a problem. It was the loss of the others that steamrolled it. Personally, I think it cost me a legit run at the National Title, but it is what it is. I'm not one to bring all of that out in the open, hence why it didn't drag out on the CC/boards when it happened. As I said, I was pretty ****** about it all going down how it did. It's just one of those things that you make a note of and move on. It only took PSU 1 season to reload and start performing again. Hopefully, for the sake of the B10, you can do the same with Illinois. The irony is, after doing such a great job with indians/Providence, you once again get to fix UConn, because UCH (or you, who really knows) had a terrible recruiting session last year.

12/15/2009 12:46 PM

mlatsko1

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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/15/2009All of this talk about how bad of a person I am is really making me wonder if I should continue with my WIS career. I go in trying to be helpful to some people who I barely even know and end up being called out as a cheater. I will have to re-think if I should continue with WIS.

If you barely knew them, then it's pretty easy not to put yourself in a questionable position.

12/15/2009 12:48 PM

zhawks

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Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 12/15/2009
Find someone to do it. It's not that complicated. I've turned down other coaches before and I can only recall once where I actually recruited for someone in the same division/world. And I only did this because my squad didn't have any scholarships. Again, I only made the statement because you're on someone else for doing it.

As for the situation, it's being handled. The issue started with you/UConn, but there was a lot more that went into it. Just losing Wells wouldn't have been a problem. It was the loss of the others that steamrolled it. Personally, I think it cost me a legit run at the National Title, but it is what it is. I'm not one to bring all of that out in the open, hence why it didn't drag out on the CC/boards when it happened. As I said, I was pretty ****** about it all going down how it did. It's just one of those things that you make a note of and move on. It only took PSU 1 season to reload and start performing again. Hopefully, for the sake of the B10, you can do the same with Illinois. The irony is, after doing such a great job with indians/Providence, you once again get to fix UConn, because UCH (or you, who really knows) had a terrible recruiting session last year.

Mike asked me to get him an elite school if possible (other then duke lol), yes i totally agree it is ironic that it is Uconn. I thank you for not dragging it out to the boards but if there is a problem I would rather have it addressed with me (via cc or sitemail for all I care) as opposed to just letting it sit.

I understand being upset with losing more then just 1 player, it sucks and I hate being a part of that, especially when it hurts my conference. But on the flip side of all of this, what if I had decided when recruiting for UC to not battle you soley on the grounds that you are in my conference? Is that not collusion? Or something close to it?

My feelings were I had to view each team as I would if it were my only team and so that is what I did. Otherwise I didn't feel I was recruiting fairly.

12/15/2009 12:54 PM

zhawks

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Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 12/15/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/15/2009
All of this talk about how bad of a person I am is really making me wonder if I should continue with my WIS career. I go in trying to be helpful to some people who I barely even know and end up being called out as a cheater. I will have to re-think if I should continue with WIS.
If you barely knew them, then it's pretty easy not to put yourself in a questionable position

So you would have just let Mike's team sit? Knowing his love for the game and all the work and money that he has put into WIS? I guess I just can't bring myself to do that. Sorry.

12/15/2009 12:55 PM

mlatsko1

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If I barely knew them, it wouldn't have been that hard to tell them that it would put me in a compromising position to begin with. If I knew them well, then I'd hope that they'd understand it and not put me in the position. And to top it all, I think I could find a way out of it after 1 season, if for some crazy reason I couldn't resolve it initially.

12/15/2009 1:05 PM

zhawks

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This is one small thing I can do to help out someone who is serving our country. If you feel that I am a shady person based on it, then well there isn't going to be anything I can do to change anyones mind, nor will I try. I have explained how it went down and why I choose to do what I did and if you choose to judge me based on that it is your choice.

12/15/2009 1:09 PM

mlatsko1

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Why you are running his team is completely irrelevant, so save your patriotism for something more appropriate. This remains:

Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 12/15/2009

Z, I can't take anything that you say regarding recruiting, as truthful and honest.

- I won't forget the situation from Phelan, from 2 seasons back.
- I wasn't comfortable with you recruiting for Providence in previous seasons.
- I question you once again being the person recruiting for UConn.

In general, it all looks shady to me.

In the end, it's very hypocritical to call out another coach on having multiple teams, when circumstances like this exist on your part. (no matter how/why)

If you want to clear it up, find someone without something to gain, to handle it. Because the truth is, if you and I battle tonight, say, in Ohio, and I've also got a recruit in UConn's territory, it's a safe bet that we're not playing on a level playing field.

12/15/2009 1:30 PM

zhawks

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I did not call out another coach, I mearly stated that you have made a big deal out of me running his team for 2 seasons, while there are other coaches who coach numerous teams on a yearly basis, which were not being stated. I was not saying there was anything right / wrong with it.

Also, I haven't had much luck in the state of Ohio lol not sure I'd tread those waters again!

But to point out mlat, I did not battle you with both of my teams, ever. Nor did I ever recruit against the same team with both of the accounts.

And if I even decided to keep my own teams I will not be recruiting for anyone else ever again. I have found out being helpful does not make the WIS community happy.

12/15/2009 1:38 PM

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