I think youre implying that you need someone in the Top 5 or maybe even Top 10 to win a title, which i dont disagree with, but having 3 of the Top 25-30 would give you a shot depending how everything else shakes out

Not if none of them crack the top 20.

Quote: Originally Posted By deanod on 5/12/2010If a team has 3 fringe top 25 guys and aren't contending, they aren't all going to make the all-star team. It's kind of a reverse causality

i agree that all-star selections are very much associated with winning, but with your Wiz example all 3 never made it in one year

not to mention their bench sucked, which is why you would still need more than just that

but had they made a few different decisions they could have been more competitive, again so many other factors come into play, but at least they had an outside chance each season

Quote: Originally Posted By deanod on 5/12/2010Not if none of them crack the top 20

depending on the rest of the makeup of the team its hard to give a blanket statement

I dont consider the Pistons as having any of the Top 20 players when they one, but they had a better supporting cast than those Wizards teams, and of course they had vastly differing results

Of course they didn't make it in the same year- it's not because their performances wildly vacillated, it's because you can't justify more than 2 guys off a .500 team in a given year.

How about last year's Suns with Amare and Shaq making the AS game, Mr. Two Time MVP Steve Nash getting snubbed, and a supporting cast of Grant Hill, J-Rich, Barbosa, Barnes, and Amundson? 46-36 finish.

as for the Knicks next year, what do you think of this team

Amare/Gallinari/JJ/Douglas/Curry/Chandleer/Vet Big Man for cheap

I could see them getting about 45-50 wins in the East



then they could make a move to unload Currys expiring at the trade deadline or wait and sign another player next off-season, so depending on how the young guys develop they could be in the picture for contending in the East

Or the 03-04 Mavs boasted a starting lineup of:

Nash (coming off back to back AS selections, won back to back MVP's in the two ensuing seasons)
Finley (a few years removed from back to back AS, but yet to enter significant decline yet)
Jamison (went on to get an AS selection the following season)
Antoine Walker (coming off back to back AS)
Dirk (his 3rd straight AS and 3 years prior to his MVP)

52-30 and lost in 5 in the 1st round. But of course, that's mostly just a ridiculous collection of talent with crappy chemistry and D.

Quote: Originally Posted By deanod on 5/12/2010Of course they didn't make it in the same year- it's not because their performances wildly vacillated, it's because you can't justify more than 2 guys off a .500 team in a given year.

How about last year's Suns with Amare and Shaq making the AS game, Mr. Two Time MVP Steve Nash getting snubbed, and a supporting cast of Grant Hill, J-Rich, Barbosa, Barnes, and Amundson? 46-36 finish

again, on the All-Star take, they only had 2

on the reality take, Shaq was not Top 30

you also forget they lost Amare down the stretch or they probably would have been in the playoffs and contending since they played so much better once Gentry took over

deano - ive said all along there are tons of factors that go into it, but each of the teams you mentioned had at least an outside shot when the season began, which is what youd hope for

coaching, chemistry, and injuries can all drastically alter that as the season goes on

Quote: Originally posted by ea162 on 5/12/2010as for the Knicks next year, what do you think of this teamAmare/Gallinari/JJ/Douglas/Curry/Chandleer/Vet Big Man for cheapI could see them getting about 45-50 wins in the East then they could make a move to unload Currys expiring at the trade deadline or wait and sign another player next off-season, so depending on how the young guys develop they could be in the picture for contending in the East 

So their usable players are

Douglas
JJ
Gallo
Chandler
Amar'e

Plus they'd still have ~ $5M cap space and the MLE after that. And Curry's expiring gives them many intriguing trade opportunities- too bad they blew all of their draft picks on the dump of Jefferies.

i think in that situation they would become quite the attractive destination should somebody like Melo demand a trade

Knicks get Melo and some uselss contract dump

Nuggets get Curry's expiring, Gallinari, and something else



something along those lines i could see happening

Quote: Originally posted by ea162 on 5/12/2010deano - ive said all along there are tons of factors that go into it, but each of the teams you mentioned had at least an outside shot when the season began, which is what youd hope forcoaching, chemistry, and injuries can all drastically alter that as the season goes on

Yeah, well my point was that you can't just throw three top 30 guys against a wall and hope it turns into contenders. You need a collection of talent that plays well off each other, like the Kings with C-Web and Peja. Webber was prob top 10, Peja top 25, then Bibby provided a good 3rd scoring option and Divac and Christie were very good role players to fill out the roster. Or the championship Pistons that were lacking in a true stud, but had a great collection of defense oriented players that distributed the scoring load amongst each other.

Quote: Originally posted by ea162 on 5/12/2010i think in that situation they would become quite the attractive destination should somebody like Melo demand a tradeKnicks get Melo and some uselss contract dumpNuggets get Curry's expiring, Gallinari, and something else something along those lines i could see happening

Hard to see Denver doing this without a seriously disappointing start with Chauncey falling off and/or injuries. Even then you would have to think their priority would be to lock up Melo longterm.

crazier trades have happened

cough *Pau* cough

Unfortunately, Chris Wallace isn't running the Nuggets. He has a track record for that sort of trades for the Celtics. I think a more realistic option for NYK would be:

Curry + Chandler to Philly for Sam Dam and Louis Williams

So you have a lineup of:

Williams
JJ
Gallo
Amare
Sam Dam

Probably not enough to win a championship, but that's a solid squad that can win 50-53 games a year.