Not disputing whether he has value or not. The issue is that he definitely can't be the best player on a team that gets to the CF (and needs a strong supporting cast to make it to the 2nd) and he's no longer their best player.

Just because he can't be the best player on a CF team doesn't make him unworthy of the max, IMO. That being said, there don't seem to be very many scenarios where he is worthy of the max. Maybe if NY signs LeBron and whiffs on their other targets.

IMO he was worth the contract that Atlanta gave him that is expiring now I just wouldnt take him to that next level

Quote: Originally Posted By firehawk122 on 5/09/2010

Quote: Originally posted by felonius on 5/09/2010
I'd say Boozer and Amare are very different players - for one thing Boozer rebounds and has a more complete post game while Amare runs the floor better and is more of an athletic Shawn Kemp type

Amare would fit much better with Lee because Lee's board work complement's Amare's complete disinterest in the subject and they offer a better hi-lo dynamic

another significant difference is that with D'Antoni at the the Helm the Knicks have an inside angle on Amare because of their previous relationship

I meant in terms of quality, not stylistically.

but I think stylistically is important in this regard as Amare is a better fit for the D'Antoni style especially if they somehow manage to keep Lee

We're not keeping Lee unless Lebron/Wade re-sign with their respective teams almost immediately.

Quote: Originally posted by deanod on 5/09/2010I just checked his playoff numbers- he's been crap ever since that Boston series. No wonder Atlanta has laid such eggs in the past two Round 2's.

You may be right- unless a team needs one more piece to get over the top, whoever overpays JJ this offseason may end up sincerely regretting it.

It's not just JJ - unless you're talking about a top 5 (maybe 10) player it is the case for most teams in general. That's why I really hope NY doesn't get JJ unless we keep Lee AND add a Bosh/Boozer/Amare/Gay.

Of the last 40 finalists, 30 drafted their best player. Worth mentioning.

Quote: Originally Posted By firehawk122 on 5/09/2010Of the last 40 finalists, 30 drafted their best player. Worth mentioning

knicks don't have a first rounder so that doesn't help them much

I'd give Johnson 3 years at full max (somewhere around 50 million), if he wants 5 years I'd go with something similar to what he has now i.e. 5 years 70 million. I might over pay a bit more if I'm the Knicks or some team like that that has been bad for a long time.

And it is much better to spend the money on Johnson then let it ride to 2011 as that class is much much weaker with Dirk and Pierce being the two best players and they are both well on the downside. Other "marquee" free agents are Tony Parker, Caron Butler, Josh Howard, Kendrick Perkins, and Tyson Chandler.

In other words, overpaying for Johnson is a hell of a lot better then saving the money for the next class as none of those guys is any better then Johnson.

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Quote: Originally posted by moranis on 5/09/2010I'd give Johnson 3 years at full max (somewhere around 50 million), if he wants 5 years I'd go with something similar to what he has now i.e. 5 years 70 million.  I might over pay a bit more if I'm the Knicks or some team like that that has been bad for a long time. And it is much better to spend the money on Johnson then let it ride to 2011 as that class is much much weaker with Dirk and Pierce being the two best players and they are both well on the downside.  Other "marquee" free agents are Tony Parker, Caron Butler, Josh Howard, Kendrick Perkins, and Tyson Chandler.  In other words, overpaying for Johnson is a hell of a lot better then saving the money for the next class as none of those guys is any better then Johnson.   

That's the sort of short-sighted thinking that got us into this mess.

Quote: Originally posted by moranis on 5/09/2010I'd give Johnson 3 years at full max (somewhere around 50 million), if he wants 5 years I'd go with something similar to what he has now i.e. 5 years 70 million.  I might over pay a bit more if I'm the Knicks or some team like that that has been bad for a long time. And it is much better to spend the money on Johnson then let it ride to 2011 as that class is much much weaker with Dirk and Pierce being the two best players and they are both well on the downside.  Other "marquee" free agents are Tony Parker, Caron Butler, Josh Howard, Kendrick Perkins, and Tyson Chandler.  In other words, overpaying for Johnson is a hell of a lot better then saving the money for the next class as none of those guys is any better then Johnson.   

Again, 30 of the 40 past teams to make it to the Finals had their best player their rookie season.

Quote: Originally Posted By firehawk122 on 5/09/2010

Quote: Originally posted by moranis on 5/09/2010
I'd give Johnson 3 years at full max (somewhere around 50 million), if he wants 5 years I'd go with something similar to what he has now i.e. 5 years 70 million. I might over pay a bit more if I'm the Knicks or some team like that that has been bad for a long time.

And it is much better to spend the money on Johnson then let it ride to 2011 as that class is much much weaker with Dirk and Pierce being the two best players and they are both well on the downside. Other "marquee" free agents are Tony Parker, Caron Butler, Josh Howard, Kendrick Perkins, and Tyson Chandler.

In other words, overpaying for Johnson is a hell of a lot better then saving the money for the next class as none of those guys is any better then Johnson.

Again, 30 of the 40 past teams to make it to the Finals had their best player their rookie season.

and again the Knicks don't have a first round pick.

Way to miss the point (again). Chasing JJ/Amare if we can't land Lebron yields no long term results unless we can land 3 of the guys mentioned previously. Yes, we win a few more games (although not really if we add JJ and subtract Lee) but again - to what end? If you want to contend for a championship, you're better off buying ping pong balls - which is the route we should be pursuing rather than ******* money away on a 2nd rate player who won't get us anywhere - I've been aware the Knicks don't have a 1st round pick - the whole discussion ties back to overall strategy (re: Long term) which seems to have flown over your head.

One thing about that stat is that things were way different 40 years back. Players would stay in school for 4 years and end up hitting FA at age 29/30 at the tail end of their prime. Now the formula is to go one and done and sign a 3 year extension after the rookie deal, so you can be a UFA at age 26.

Naturally, JJ + Amare doesn't make the Knicks contenders though.