Glitch that needs to be fixed (long) Topic

orrdc
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Swarthmore in D3 Knight does this as well, and basically copies the same strategy. Load up on Good rebounders and then pick 2 pretty good/ average Per and just have them chuck up every shot, it seems to be pretty effective as well
4/17/2010 3:50 PM
oldave
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again i ask... has bingball every suceeded at D1?

also, the d2 and D3 teams that have succeeded... were they NC-caliber talented... or did bingballing turn pumpkins into cinderellas?

seems i heard mention of bing's teams having an big RE advantage in most games... that seems a pretty good recipe for success no matter your offense at D3.
4/17/2010 11:20 PM
jerkstore33
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Bing's teams were loaded with talent. High ratings across the board, especially in SPD and ATH. IMHO, even without the gimmick he would've challenged for a title most seasons.
4/18/2010 1:24 AM
chewchad
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i played bings teams a few times in the tournies....I will say this: His players usually had awesome PE for DIII(sometimes around 70-75).

Someone said earlier in the forum that PE seems to weigh more than LP and I agree. My DII Glenville St. team is a great example this season.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=7422

If you notice, my cores arent wonderful for a DII team, yet I am winning games I shouldnt because of my shooters.

IMO, a 85 rated PE is alot more valuable than a 85 rated LP (with all else equal).



4/18/2010 1:29 AM
emy1013
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Quote: Originally Posted By jerkstore33 on 4/18/2010Bing's teams were loaded with talent. High ratings across the board, especially in SPD and ATH. IMHO, even without the gimmick he would've challenged for a title most seasons.

Which makes it even worse that he chose to use the gimmick in the first place.
4/18/2010 9:14 AM
Nellie
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4/18/2010 9:53 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By gillispie on 4/17/2010colonels - what if i feel the optimal distro for my team is set, and it sums to 40. am i supposed to now multiply everybody by 2.5, round when i can't, and deal with the imperfections?

also, i like to be able to adjust players independently. if i feel player X needs 2 more distro, why make the task much harder and more time consuming by making me choose 1-2 players to decrease? it just doesn't make any sense
Fair enough, thank you
4/18/2010 9:56 AM
survivor45
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I had no idea this was called 'bing' strategy. But I used it and loved it.

I first saw it while I was in DII in Rupp. There was a conference mate that used it and had about an 'A' prestige and he would mop the floor against everyone he faced. His two shooting guards averaged probably close to 70ppg combined.

I loved facing that team. Sure, I lost more than I won - but it was like trying to solve a Rubic's cube. Beating that team was more fulfilling than winning a conference championship, in a way. It took a while, but I think I found a defensive strategy that is somewhat effective against it.

So I moved up to D1 and took over a weak UNH team out of the Patriot League. My prestige was awful, but I was able to land a pretty good 2 year juco shooting guard out of Utah. After a few games into my 1st season in D1, I said to myself, "What do I have to lose?" and started using the bing strategy with more frequency. Won a lot of games. It was fun, too!

My second season of D1, I decided to use the 'set and forget' method with my settings and dared everyone to try to beat it. After pulling out my hair trying to beat it, I think I knew exactly how to build a team around it. It was really fun. Most people seemed to like trying to beat that rubic's cube just as I did. One person did complain, though. It wasn't an invincible offense, but it was a highly effective one.

That Utah community college shooting guard that higher prestiged teams ignored? Someone pointed out to me that he scored 1001 points in his senior year! He was the top pick selected overall in the draft. I won 50 games in 2 years with a low-to-mid major UNH Wildcats team. In the tournament, I went against a team that had an overall rating that was about 250 points greater than mine and I lost by one point (in OT, I think).

So now I'm with Charlotte (my alma mater) and I'm doing pretty well coaching them. I might pull out the ol' Chuck and Duck junk offense once in a while against certain teams, but I'll use a much more watered down version. Using it and learning from it made me a better WIS coach, I think.

Personally, I think WIS should make bingball more realistic. But I also think that WIS should allow a real underdog to discover a great player or two and ride the live-and-die-by-the-three towards a dream season. In real life, a great perimeter shooter can be quite an equalizer on an otherwise bad team (Curry at Davidson was mentioned).

Anyway, that's my story.
4/19/2010 1:05 PM
kmasonbx
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Survivor that coach in your D2 conference wouldn't happen to have been Nash1209? If so Nash was Bing's alias.
4/19/2010 1:12 PM
survivor45
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The one and the same. I loved playing him.
4/19/2010 1:21 PM
schroedess26
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Just make it so you can put 3, 4, or 5 players on a player. You should be able to set a defensive distro as well. So you can put 30% of your effort to guard one player and 10% into another and 5% into another. This way your team focuses more on shutting down a certain player.

Think of it this way, do players that shoot 40 shots as opposed to 10 shots get tired faster? I don't think so, also do they start shooting worse just cause they shot 20 shots already? Oh wait they usually get better as the game goes on as they "warm up".

Personally I just think defensive pressure should be a reason for him missing shots, not just forcing the engine to make him shoot worse cause he is shooting a lot.

In the end the problem is the fact that you don't have enough defensive control, you just need to be able to tell your team to not worry about anyone except the "star" player.
4/19/2010 2:57 PM
kmasonbx
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Quote: Originally Posted By schroedess26 on 4/19/2010Just make it so you can put 3, 4, or 5 players on a player. You should be able to set a defensive distro as well. So you can put 30% of your effort to guard one player and 10% into another and 5% into another. This way your team focuses more on shutting down a certain player.

Think of it this way, do players that shoot 40 shots as opposed to 10 shots get tired faster? I don't think so, also do they start shooting worse just cause they shot 20 shots already? Oh wait they usually get better as the game goes on as they "warm up".

Personally I just think defensive pressure should be a reason for him missing shots, not just forcing the engine to make him shoot worse cause he is shooting a lot.

In the end the problem is the fact that you don't have enough defensive control, you just need to be able to tell your team to not worry about anyone except the "star" player
I pretty much disagree with everything in this post. Guys should and do get more fatigued the more they shoot in real life, the reason is it takes more energy to work for a shot then it takes to pass the ball and get out of the way. The more shots you take the worse your shooting % will be because the defense is keying on you more and if you take 25 shots instead of 15 shots you will take a higher percentage of forced/bad shots.

The option to triple team a single player is a bad idea because it's not possible for the coach who has his player being triple teamed to adjust and lower his distro because the player will not be able to adjust on his own unlike real life when not only the player getting triple teamed would adjust so would his teammates.
4/19/2010 3:04 PM
dalter
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The amount of additional fatigue is pretty minimal. Shooting guards like that are constantly running around picks, working to get open, etc. Shooting more is really not going to have a major impact on fatigue.

As for the triple team, don't think it's needed as an option, but if it was you could just do "triple team only if leading scorer" and that takes care of your concern.
4/19/2010 3:14 PM
schroedess26
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Kmason you even said in your explanation it takes more energy to get open hence the defense is what is causing the fatigue not the person taking shots. If your wide open the whole game or can just drive right past a guy he is not getting more fatigued than playing a normal motion or what not.

Also, you said a higher # of shots makes you shoot worse cause the defense keys in on the guy. Again you stated my argument for me. The defense is what is causing a bad shot, not just cause he shoots more.

Also, someone who is one of the top 2 or 3 players for scoring on the team can shoot 5 times or 20 times and will still be working for the ball and shot the same. First thing you learn about running an offense is that every pick you come off hard and fast cause sometimes you will get the ball and get the shoot. So working to get open will happen wether you get the ball or not.

Also, the triple team is just a thought but most people would rarely use the option as it would leave everyone else open for easy shots. The only time it would be used most likely would be when a guy is taking 40%+ of the shots for a team and scores half the points. It doesn't need to be added just a thought on a way to "key in" on players more than you can right now when you know one player will take 80-100% of the shots for a team.
4/19/2010 3:49 PM
bigbucks69
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Quote: Originally Posted By survivor45 on 4/19/2010I had no idea this was called 'bing' strategy. But I used it and loved it.

I first saw it while I was in DII in Rupp. There was a conference mate that used it and had about an 'A' prestige and he would mop the floor against everyone he faced. His two shooting guards averaged probably close to 70ppg combined.

I loved facing that team. Sure, I lost more than I won - but it was like trying to solve a Rubic's cube. Beating that team was more fulfilling than winning a conference championship, in a way. It took a while, but I think I found a defensive strategy that is somewhat effective against it.

So I moved up to D1 and took over a weak UNH team out of the Patriot League. My prestige was awful, but I was able to land a pretty good 2 year juco shooting guard out of Utah. After a few games into my 1st season in D1, I said to myself, "What do I have to lose?" and started using the bing strategy with more frequency. Won a lot of games. It was fun, too!

My second season of D1, I decided to use the 'set and forget' method with my settings and dared everyone to try to beat it. After pulling out my hair trying to beat it, I think I knew exactly how to build a team around it. It was really fun. Most people seemed to like trying to beat that rubic's cube just as I did. One person did complain, though. It wasn't an invincible offense, but it was a highly effective one.

That Utah community college shooting guard that higher prestiged teams ignored? Someone pointed out to me that he scored 1001 points in his senior year! He was the top pick selected overall in the draft. I won 50 games in 2 years with a low-to-mid major UNH Wildcats team. In the tournament, I went against a team that had an overall rating that was about 250 points greater than mine and I lost by one point (in OT, I think).

So now I'm with Charlotte (my alma mater) and I'm doing pretty well coaching them. I might pull out the ol' Chuck and Duck junk offense once in a while against certain teams, but I'll use a much more watered down version. Using it and learning from it made me a better WIS coach, I think.

Personally, I think WIS should make bingball more realistic. But I also think that WIS should allow a real underdog to discover a great player or two and ride the live-and-die-by-the-three towards a dream season. In real life, a great perimeter shooter can be quite an equalizer on an otherwise bad team (Curry at Davidson was mentioned).

Anyway, that's my story
You did use this strategy to make a not so good team very competitive. This strategy does work at d-1 also.
4/19/2010 8:30 PM
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Glitch that needs to be fixed (long) Topic
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