Call Bullpen setting of 0 Topic

skunk206
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It's rather annoying when a starting pitcher is pulled from the game in the middle of an inning when he's still 10, 20, even 30 pitches or more below his TPC.  Especially when his Call Bullpen setting is the lowest it can be at 1.  This can do heavy damage to a bullpen's fatigue, especially early on in the season, and can take days, even weeks, to recover from.

As SIM managers, we need to be given more control over how many pitches our starters actually throw.  Call Bullpen setting of 0 will do exactly that.
7/1/2010 4:13 PM
crazystengel
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I second that emotion.  I've sent tickets in before about this very issue, and was told they'd think about a 0 setting.  I'd love to see it as an option.
7/1/2010 4:33 PM
winnetka1
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all in favor say aye
7/1/2010 6:29 PM (edited)
skunk206
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Just happened again in today's pm2 games.  Mort Cooper pulled 20 pitches before his TPC, bullpen has to pick up the slack and will be tired for the next game.
7/1/2010 6:51 PM
tzentmeyer
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We've considered a call bullpen of 0 but there are just as many negatives as positives to such a change. It would allow owners to tank more easily.  You can't count on everyone being an upstanding owner.

You can still achieve what you're looking to do by adjusting the Min Inning Available setting of your bullpen arms.

Remember, target pitch count is just that. If the pitcher is struggling, the manager can opt to pull prior to the pitch count.

If you run into a situation where he's being pulled earlier than you think he should, click the Review Box link.  We reviewed and fixed one such situation earlier today that will be in the next engine update. Involved a very specific instance where pitcher allowed first 3 runs of game in 3rd inning with a Call Bullpen of 4. Typo was causing him to be yanked when he shouldn't.
7/5/2010 4:29 PM
skunk206
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Posted by tzentmeyer on 7/5/2010 4:29:00 PM (view original):
We've considered a call bullpen of 0 but there are just as many negatives as positives to such a change. It would allow owners to tank more easily.  You can't count on everyone being an upstanding owner.

You can still achieve what you're looking to do by adjusting the Min Inning Available setting of your bullpen arms.

Remember, target pitch count is just that. If the pitcher is struggling, the manager can opt to pull prior to the pitch count.

If you run into a situation where he's being pulled earlier than you think he should, click the Review Box link.  We reviewed and fixed one such situation earlier today that will be in the next engine update. Involved a very specific instance where pitcher allowed first 3 runs of game in 3rd inning with a Call Bullpen of 4. Typo was causing him to be yanked when he shouldn't.
"If the pitcher is struggling, the manager can opt to pull prior to the pitch count."

I'm the manager.  I don't want him pulled prior to his TPC, no matter how badly he's "struggling".  There should be a way for this to happen without having to manipulate other settings, especially if you have a starting staff with varying TPCs, as that would require micromanagement and constant adjusting of reliever availability.  That's the kind of thing that makes SLB very difficult and frustrating for new/casual players. 
7/8/2010 11:40 AM
tzentmeyer
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It's a balance between user settings and realism. If we only went with user settings, there'd be far too much abuse and problems caused. Enforcing some semblance of forced realism keeps things flowing.

We can always improve this logic, so if you see situations where you're not getting what you want, click the Review Box link on the box score.
7/8/2010 5:10 PM
toddcommish
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Pssst, Tom, you could always just shift the lowest setting to be "0", but retain the current logic.

Kinda like Spinal Tap's amps going to 11, but the other direction.
7/8/2010 5:23 PM
crazystengel
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I agree with skunk206.  He's the manager, and if he wants his starter in for X number of pitches no matter what, why can't he have that?  Owners who play live have complete control over their pitchers, so why can't we have it in simmed games? 

I don't even think it would aid that greatly in tanking since most leagues now have injuries on, so it's not as if a 0% scrub could last 255 pitches like in the old days.

7/9/2010 11:18 AM
skunk206
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Posted by crazystengel on 7/9/2010 11:18:00 AM (view original):
I agree with skunk206.  He's the manager, and if he wants his starter in for X number of pitches no matter what, why can't he have that?  Owners who play live have complete control over their pitchers, so why can't we have it in simmed games? 

I don't even think it would aid that greatly in tanking since most leagues now have injuries on, so it's not as if a 0% scrub could last 255 pitches like in the old days.

Very true.  If a league creator wants to prevent tanking, they can adjust their settings for injuries or simply have their own anti-tanking rules in place outside of the available user settings.  This should be enough to curb any potential abuse of the theoretical zero setting so that those who would use the setting for legitimate pitch count management can do so.  Besides, it's surely only a very small number of users who would potentially abuse the setting, so why is that a deterrent for creating it so a much larger number of users could benefit from it?
7/9/2010 2:22 PM
tzentmeyer
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If others are interested, please discuss more. I'd like to hear more viewpoints. Thanks
7/9/2010 5:41 PM
SpotSell
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Putting a pull setting at zero, forcing a pitcher to stay in the game, is the best tool to help a pitching staff crippled by extreme fatigue - it gives everyone else some badly needed rest.

7/9/2010 7:23 PM
fillies
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Posted by tzentmeyer on 7/5/2010 4:29:00 PM (view original):
We've considered a call bullpen of 0 but there are just as many negatives as positives to such a change. It would allow owners to tank more easily.  You can't count on everyone being an upstanding owner.

You can still achieve what you're looking to do by adjusting the Min Inning Available setting of your bullpen arms.

Remember, target pitch count is just that. If the pitcher is struggling, the manager can opt to pull prior to the pitch count.

If you run into a situation where he's being pulled earlier than you think he should, click the Review Box link.  We reviewed and fixed one such situation earlier today that will be in the next engine update. Involved a very specific instance where pitcher allowed first 3 runs of game in 3rd inning with a Call Bullpen of 4. Typo was causing him to be yanked when he shouldn't.
I'm a little confused by the statement "it would allow owners to tank more easily" I checked my team pitchers settings and I can set the max TPC and MPC to 170 for any of my pitchers. If I really wanted to 'tank' it seems the settings are already allowing me to do that. Set the call bullpen to 0 and the TPC to 200 .
7/9/2010 7:56 PM
seels
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I will like this ONLY if a 0 pull cannot be done with TPC and MPC set to "None".  Otherwise you'll have teams scoring 100 runs in a game as fatigue stategies will reach a new level.
7/9/2010 9:18 PM
kneeneighbor
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Play LIVE and pull your pitcher when you want.
7/9/2010 9:23 PM
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