Going undefeated in a full conference isn't exactly a loophole.  Anyone who thinks otherwise just join up and give it a shot.  Even if you have a dominant team and are a favorite each game, probably not a favorite to run the table.  This isn't D3, at IA coaches tend to know what they're doing.

One of my favorite games was last year in Camp when Marshall, who was 0-8 in POWER Conference USA, beat Elite Florida State to cross them off the Boogeyman Hitlist.  Marshall finished 1-12 WIS #64.   FSU finished 12-2 WIS #11 Lvl4 Bowl Winner.   Way to go Tom!

Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/22/2010 7:38:00 AM (view original):
I don't believe that Miami (OH) really should be in the top 5, but with the WIS rankings figuring out the way they do, I knew I'd be in the NC game if I went undefeated with almost a full conference. This is something that should be worked on, but until then...

How many other coaches would have Miami(OH) in the same position you have them in? This isn't only about gaming the system. There are other ways the sytem is beibng gamed so all is fair. The same is true for ebel at UCF. He has won  games against many top teams and quality coaches.

How many coaches at Elite schools came right here into the forums and said they schedule only teams they are going to beat. I see a number of elite coaches playing 5 Mid Major schools in OOC. Even going as far as to schedule sims so they don't have to play a tough OOC game.

What many people keep over looking is how many tough OOC games UCF has played over the last 4 seasons.  

Winning 3 straight NCs proves he belonged in the game.

We have a number of top coaches in CUSA. All of whom have beaten ebel in the past.  Hard to believe people are giving him sh!t for beating a bunch of qualtiy teams and coaches on his way  to the #1 ranking.

I have zero problem with ebel's run at UCF. Obviously, he's proven that he has a great team, worthy of a three-peat. All I was trying to say was that if you have a full conference and you go undefeated, there's very little chance you won't be in the NC game. When someone like mjmage goes undefeated with Penn St in Warner because his conference isn't full and people wouldn't play him OOC, he will rarely go to the NC game. Whether that's the way it should be or not, I don't know. But that's the way it is.

And there's a very good chance this season and possibly next will be my only times going undefeated through the Big MAC. It's not easy...

Besides, the Big MAC isn't even full LOL

Posted by ebel331 on 9/22/2010 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Besides, the Big MAC isn't even full LOL

That's true...our sim team actually did pretty well this year. If Dennis hadn't left at the last second...

I find it hard to call going undefeated through a full DIA conference a "loophole" in any sense of the word. That's more like "victory."

Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/22/2010 1:49:00 PM (view original):
I have zero problem with ebel's run at UCF. Obviously, he's proven that he has a great team, worthy of a three-peat. All I was trying to say was that if you have a full conference and you go undefeated, there's very little chance you won't be in the NC game. When someone like mjmage goes undefeated with Penn St in Warner because his conference isn't full and people wouldn't play him OOC, he will rarely go to the NC game. Whether that's the way it should be or not, I don't know. But that's the way it is.

And there's a very good chance this season and possibly next will be my only times going undefeated through the Big MAC. It's not easy...

He interprets any rational point on the subject a personal attack on him.

And let it be known Ebel refuses to play me.

Who's going to take me off the booger list?

in b4 excuses

Posted by tcochran on 9/22/2010 2:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/22/2010 1:49:00 PM (view original):
I have zero problem with ebel's run at UCF. Obviously, he's proven that he has a great team, worthy of a three-peat. All I was trying to say was that if you have a full conference and you go undefeated, there's very little chance you won't be in the NC game. When someone like mjmage goes undefeated with Penn St in Warner because his conference isn't full and people wouldn't play him OOC, he will rarely go to the NC game. Whether that's the way it should be or not, I don't know. But that's the way it is.

And there's a very good chance this season and possibly next will be my only times going undefeated through the Big MAC. It's not easy...

He interprets any rational point on the subject a personal attack on him.

Umm that wasn't even me that was Rob. 

Posted by tcochran on 9/22/2010 2:44:00 PM (view original):
And let it be known Ebel refuses to play me.

Who's going to take me off the booger list?

in b4 excuses

I'll play you next season in Bryant in Columbia.

Posted by ebel331 on 9/22/2010 1:10:00 PM (view original):
Going undefeated in a full conference isn't exactly a loophole.  Anyone who thinks otherwise just join up and give it a shot.  Even if you have a dominant team and are a favorite each game, probably not a favorite to run the table.  This isn't D3, at IA coaches tend to know what they're doing.

One of my favorite games was last year in Camp when Marshall, who was 0-8 in POWER Conference USA, beat Elite Florida State to cross them off the Boogeyman Hitlist.  Marshall finished 1-12 WIS #64.   FSU finished 12-2 WIS #11 Lvl4 Bowl Winner.   Way to go Tom!

My loophole and gaming the system comments were directed at nelson's non-conf. schedule.  I am NOT trying to take anything away from him or any other coach who takes a NonBCS to the NC game.  In fact, I probably would've scheduled about the same as he did.  

Taking teams to the top from difficult positions is a commendable accomplishment to say the least.

Posted by willgibson on 9/22/2010 2:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tcochran on 9/22/2010 2:44:00 PM (view original):
And let it be known Ebel refuses to play me.

Who's going to take me off the booger list?

in b4 excuses

I'll play you next season in Bryant in Columbia.

sure

doesn't change anything about ebel though

Posted by buffalo_rob on 9/22/2010 1:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/22/2010 7:38:00 AM (view original):
I don't believe that Miami (OH) really should be in the top 5, but with the WIS rankings figuring out the way they do, I knew I'd be in the NC game if I went undefeated with almost a full conference. This is something that should be worked on, but until then...

How many other coaches would have Miami(OH) in the same position you have them in? This isn't only about gaming the system. There are other ways the sytem is beibng gamed so all is fair. The same is true for ebel at UCF. He has won  games against many top teams and quality coaches.

How many coaches at Elite schools came right here into the forums and said they schedule only teams they are going to beat. I see a number of elite coaches playing 5 Mid Major schools in OOC. Even going as far as to schedule sims so they don't have to play a tough OOC game.

What many people keep over looking is how many tough OOC games UCF has played over the last 4 seasons.  

Winning 3 straight NCs proves he belonged in the game.

We have a number of top coaches in CUSA. All of whom have beaten ebel in the past.  Hard to believe people are giving him sh!t for beating a bunch of qualtiy teams and coaches on his way  to the #1 ranking.

In Nelsons case, with that schedule he has, many top coaches would be undefeated. That schedule in my opinion would be like many of us playing in Division 2 or 3 but getting credited for a division 1 schedule.......No one can tell me that Ohio played a #3 SOS schedule,He did not play 1 team ranked in the top 20. My schedule was ranked #5 and I played 6 teams higher ranked than any of Ohio's opponents,.and probably 8 teams that was harder to beat than his hardest team. that is my problem.

I have no problem with gaming the system, I do it myself in many aspects, but when there is a obvious problem in the game it should be fixed. If it takes a couple people to game the system to bring it to light then thats fine, but this is something that should be fixed. Mediocre teams should not be given so much credit in SOS.

BTW-It's not personal against Nelson, he has proven to be successful. This is just 1 situation that he is in right now.

P.S. I also don't think with my 3 losses I should be ranked higher than Ohio, but Miami FLA and Ohio St both should be ranked higher than Ohio.

Lets look at the toughest teams Miami Oh played, and the opponents he faced, and the human OOC games they played that was BCS teams...

#23 Toledo (10-3)

Maryland (6-7, #51) defeats Toledo 28-9
Michigan (9-4,, #20) defeats Toldeo 28-10

#24 Buffalo (9-4)

Washington (10-4, #36) defeats Buffalo 35-17
Arizona St (9-4, #52) defeats Buffalo 22-21
Wisconsin (12-1, #15) defeats Buffalo 42-0

#29 Ohio

Penn St (8-5, #30) defeats Ohio 35-10

All the teams that Miami Oh played combined, including the 3 BCS teams that he played in OOC, have a combined 1 win vs human coached BCS teams that have 4 seasons of human recruits.

It's a obvious flaw in the system and no coach or team with that kind of schedule deserves to be ranked #1 just because they are undefeated.

Posted by tcochran on 9/22/2010 8:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/22/2010 7:38:00 AM (view original):
I don't believe that Miami (OH) really should be in the top 5, but with the WIS rankings figuring out the way they do, I knew I'd be in the NC game if I went undefeated with almost a full conference. This is something that should be worked on, but until then...

hmm.. I wonder if this is happening in other worlds..............................


..........

It happen a couple times in the past couple of years, but lately more and more people are becoming aware of the flaw in the system, and like any game once the player base finds the best way to win more and more people will attempt to capitalize on the system. If you read the earlier portions of this thread you will see where Nelson was aware of this flaw. Now that its in the limelight on the forums I expect people to start trickling in to use this strategy.