Lowly Mid-Major takes over Camp World. Again. Topic

ebel331
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Again with the BCS cOnference that you assume is tougher cause it's BCS.
9/23/2010 10:17 AM
plague
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Posted by ebel331 on 9/23/2010 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Again with the BCS cOnference that you assume is tougher cause it's BCS.
They generally are. The best teams in a BCS conference by a heavy percentage beat the best teams in a non bcs conference.
9/23/2010 10:20 AM
ebel331
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POWER Conference USA beat the Pac10 head to head last season. That makes CUSA better but let's call em even. USC does not have to play any elites it doesn't want to. If USC made title game would there be a ten page thread complaining about who he had to play? Of course not.
9/23/2010 10:22 AM
jtwhiz
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Posted by ebel331 on 9/23/2010 10:22:00 AM (view original):
POWER Conference USA beat the Pac10 head to head last season. That makes CUSA better but let's call em even. USC does not have to play any elites it doesn't want to. If USC made title game would there be a ten page thread complaining about who he had to play? Of course not.
I hate to nitpick, but it's actually 16 pages at the moment.
9/23/2010 10:24 AM
nelsonba25
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Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 9:54:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/23/2010 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 9:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dravz on 9/23/2010 8:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 6:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ebel331 on 9/22/2010 10:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tcochran on 9/22/2010 9:04:00 PM (view original):
I don't know how many people will be able to use that strategy successfully.  You more or less have to take a non-BCS/no elite conference, be the dominant force in it, then convince coaches to join it (but not good enough to topple the big dog), and ride the wave of mediocre teams to NC appearances.
It's hilarious how far behind the curve you are. 
I was not saying it would be easy, not every coach would be able to use this to his advantage, but its been shown a few times that Non BCS teams can schedule mediocre teams on their schedule, then play a inferior conference schedule, go undefeated, and play in the NC game. If you are in a BCS conference you can't avoid BCS teams, you have to play them in conference.
And those same teams could just as easily miss the NC game because their schedule was too light (thanks to a vastly inferior conference schedule). We've been over this before, there are two sides to this coin. The genius of UCF and Miami OH is the filling of the rest of their respective non-BCS conferences.
It's not about what could or could not happen. I am showing how you can game the system by using Nelson as a example. What are the odds of winning with a Non BCS team taking on mediocre schedule compared to taking on a BCS team like Indiana who plays 5 elites? Only 2 teams make the NC game, of course you could fail, but how does taking on a Non BCS team like this in comparison to lowly BCS teams?

Miami OH according to WIS has the 3rd hardest SOS. That is absurd, there is a problem in the rankings. The teams he played below is not the 3rd best SOS. My team according to WIS had the 5th hardest SOS. Below is the 3 highest ranked teams that Miami OH beat and the teams they beat. All of Miami OH teams opponents combined beat 3 BCS team, and only 1 of those teams beat a BCS team that had 4 seasons of recruits, and Miami OH played 2 BCS teams.

#22 Toledo (10-3)

Maryland (6-7, #51) defeats Toledo 28-9
Michigan (9-4,, #20) defeats Toldeo 28-10

#25 Buffalo (9-4)

Washington (10-4, #36) defeats Buffalo 35-17
Arizona St (9-4, #52) defeats Buffalo 22-21
Wisconsin (12-1, #15) defeats Buffalo 42-0

#29 Ohio

Penn St (8-5, #30) defeats Ohio 35-10

Here is the teams I played that are higher ranked the hardest team that Miami OH played............I had 3 losses, so I am not saying I deserved to play in the NC.

#6 Texas
#7 Alabama
#12 USC
#16 Boston College
#21 NC State
#23 Notre Dame



So it sounds like the only thing you're saying is that your schedule was better than an undefeated non-BCS schedule and it's better to play and lose to higher rated teams and you should be in a better bowl game than an undefeated non-BCS team. That the gist? It seems like you've made the same post a couple times.
Are you disagreeing? Do you think your schedule was harder than my schedule? Who had the easier road to a undefeated season?

I think you should have to play someone worthy of a NC game to play in the NC game. History has not been kind to undefeated Non BCS teams in comparison
to 1 loss BCS teams.
 

2009
2 1 Alabama 13-0
3 2 Texas 13-0
4 3 Cincinnati 12-0
4 4 TCU 12-0
1 5 Florida 12-1
6 6 Boise State 13-0

2008
2 1 Oklahoma 12-1
4 2 Florida 12-1
3 3 Texas 11-1
1 4 Alabama 12-1
5 5 USC 11-1
6 6 Utah 12-0
7 7 Texas Tech 11-1
8 8 Penn State 11-1
9 9 Boise State 12-0

2007

3 1 Ohio State 11-1
7 2 LSU 11-2
6 3 Virginia Tech 11-2
9 4 Oklahoma 11-2
4 5 Georgia 10-2
1 6 Missouri 11-2
8 7 USC 10-2
5 8 Kansas 11-1
2 9 West Virginia 10-2
12 10 Hawaii 12-0

2006


1 1 Ohio State 12-0
4 2 Florida 12-1
3 3 Michigan 11-1
5 4 LSU 10-2
2 5 USC 10-2
6 6 Louisville 11-1
7 7 Wisconsin 11-1
8 8 Boise State 12-0






I didn't say my schedule was harder than yours. I could have easily scheduled some losses, just like you did. I also never said I think Miami should be in the NC game. However, I also don't think just because you have losses to higher ranked teams, you have a better team than me. Why not bring up Maryland and Ole Miss? They also lost to more ranked teams than I played. By your logic, it seems like they should be in a better bowl game than me too. Maybe I should have just been in a L1 bowl, or to use your previous analogy, maybe I should be in the DIII or DII playoffs?
9/23/2010 10:25 AM
plague
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Bryant bowl games level 4 and 5 bowl games. When top non bcs teams face top 20 quality bcs teams the outcome is seldom respectable.

#16 LSU defeats  #14 Central Michigan 52-16
#17 Miami FLA defeats #22 Army 52-10

In Bryant..

 East Carolina. Only played 1 Human coached BCS team.

#24 Illinois defeats #7 E. Carolina 34-14

Utah played 3 human coached BCS teams, only 1 team ranked in the top 25. Utah beat #36 ranked BCS team.

#20 Boston College defeats #12 Utah 30-20

Central Michigan only played 1 BCS  team ranked in the top 65

#24 Illinois defeats #14 Central Michigan 27-14

#15 Marshall defeated 42nd ranked Air Force as their highest rated BCS team.

Should I go through the other worlds and show how top 20 ranked BCS teams fare against top 20 NON BCS teams?






9/23/2010 10:32 AM
nelsonba25
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Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Bryant bowl games level 4 and 5 bowl games. When top non bcs teams face top 20 quality bcs teams the outcome is seldom respectable.

#16 LSU defeats  #14 Central Michigan 52-16
#17 Miami FLA defeats #22 Army 52-10

In Bryant..

 East Carolina. Only played 1 Human coached BCS team.

#24 Illinois defeats #7 E. Carolina 34-14

Utah played 3 human coached BCS teams, only 1 team ranked in the top 25. Utah beat #36 ranked BCS team.

#20 Boston College defeats #12 Utah 30-20

Central Michigan only played 1 BCS  team ranked in the top 65

#24 Illinois defeats #14 Central Michigan 27-14

#15 Marshall defeated 42nd ranked Air Force as their highest rated BCS team.

Should I go through the other worlds and show how top 20 ranked BCS teams fare against top 20 NON BCS teams?






That would probably be a very solid use of your time...
9/23/2010 10:35 AM
plague
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Nelson I don't want to copy/quote that post, its getting too long.....It's impossible for all teams to be ranked higher than every team they beat. I am not arguing that upsets never happen, however all of us know there is little difference when playing a 4-8 team or a 0-12 team, you know you are going to win. What really makes a championship quality team is when they beat other championship quality teams, not because you beat 3 four win teams and I beat 3 zero win teams. I showed examples from 2006-2009. Teams like Boise St, Hawaii, and Utah were behind teams strictly because their undefeated season was against a much easier schedule.
9/23/2010 10:37 AM
plague
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Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/23/2010 10:35:00 AM (view original):
Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Bryant bowl games level 4 and 5 bowl games. When top non bcs teams face top 20 quality bcs teams the outcome is seldom respectable.

#16 LSU defeats  #14 Central Michigan 52-16
#17 Miami FLA defeats #22 Army 52-10

In Bryant..

 East Carolina. Only played 1 Human coached BCS team.

#24 Illinois defeats #7 E. Carolina 34-14

Utah played 3 human coached BCS teams, only 1 team ranked in the top 25. Utah beat #36 ranked BCS team.

#20 Boston College defeats #12 Utah 30-20

Central Michigan only played 1 BCS  team ranked in the top 65

#24 Illinois defeats #14 Central Michigan 27-14

#15 Marshall defeated 42nd ranked Air Force as their highest rated BCS team.

Should I go through the other worlds and show how top 20 ranked BCS teams fare against top 20 NON BCS teams?






That would probably be a very solid use of your time...
About as solid of a use of my time as playing this game or posting on a internet forum. If I am going to make a claim I am going to show evidence. Ebel seem to doubt that BCS teams tend to be better than Non BCS teams and I chose to show proof what happens when top 20 BCS teams play top 20 Non BCS teams or level 4 and 5 Bowl games.
9/23/2010 10:40 AM
plague
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Posted by ebel331 on 9/23/2010 10:22:00 AM (view original):
POWER Conference USA beat the Pac10 head to head last season. That makes CUSA better but let's call em even. USC does not have to play any elites it doesn't want to. If USC made title game would there be a ten page thread complaining about who he had to play? Of course not.
Unfortunately I do not have the camp results to compare.

USC would get less scrutiny on average because worst case scenario they would play a BCS conference schedule. I would have to take a look at every individual situation. Right now I am looking at the example in front of me.
9/23/2010 10:45 AM
tcochran
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Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Bryant bowl games level 4 and 5 bowl games. When top non bcs teams face top 20 quality bcs teams the outcome is seldom respectable.

#16 LSU defeats  #14 Central Michigan 52-16
#17 Miami FLA defeats #22 Army 52-10

In Bryant..

 East Carolina. Only played 1 Human coached BCS team.

#24 Illinois defeats #7 E. Carolina 34-14

Utah played 3 human coached BCS teams, only 1 team ranked in the top 25. Utah beat #36 ranked BCS team.

#20 Boston College defeats #12 Utah 30-20

Central Michigan only played 1 BCS  team ranked in the top 65

#24 Illinois defeats #14 Central Michigan 27-14

#15 Marshall defeated 42nd ranked Air Force as their highest rated BCS team.

Should I go through the other worlds and show how top 20 ranked BCS teams fare against top 20 NON BCS teams?






Exactly.  There's usually a handful of those midmajor teams in every world that get into level 4 or 5 bowls against teams from BCS conferences.  And they normally get blown out.  There are certainly exceptions.

Those midmajor teams usually get there by winning against WIS ranked teams say 25-70.  They normally get to avoid playing desolate 119th ranked SIM in conference because most of those SOS killers are in BCS conferences.  Why?  Because it is more difficult to rebuild a team in a BCS conference with several elites + other established powers.  Thus, there's usually a few 1-12 or 0-13 teams that make your win vs #4 Penn State rather useless because your SOS dives into the 50s.

The point is the SOS system currently penalizes a team that beats three Top 15 teams but several 110th ranked SIMs too harshly and rewards a team for beating more middle-of-the-pack teams but no true top team.  And everyone knows that beating a couple of top teams is more difficult than beating eight 40th ranked teams.
9/23/2010 10:49 AM
plague
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Posted by tcochran on 9/23/2010 10:49:00 AM (view original):
Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Bryant bowl games level 4 and 5 bowl games. When top non bcs teams face top 20 quality bcs teams the outcome is seldom respectable.

#16 LSU defeats  #14 Central Michigan 52-16
#17 Miami FLA defeats #22 Army 52-10

In Bryant..

 East Carolina. Only played 1 Human coached BCS team.

#24 Illinois defeats #7 E. Carolina 34-14

Utah played 3 human coached BCS teams, only 1 team ranked in the top 25. Utah beat #36 ranked BCS team.

#20 Boston College defeats #12 Utah 30-20

Central Michigan only played 1 BCS  team ranked in the top 65

#24 Illinois defeats #14 Central Michigan 27-14

#15 Marshall defeated 42nd ranked Air Force as their highest rated BCS team.

Should I go through the other worlds and show how top 20 ranked BCS teams fare against top 20 NON BCS teams?






Exactly.  There's usually a handful of those midmajor teams in every world that get into level 4 or 5 bowls against teams from BCS conferences.  And they normally get blown out.  There are certainly exceptions.

Those midmajor teams usually get there by winning against WIS ranked teams say 25-70.  They normally get to avoid playing desolate 119th ranked SIM in conference because most of those SOS killers are in BCS conferences.  Why?  Because it is more difficult to rebuild a team in a BCS conference with several elites + other established powers.  Thus, there's usually a few 1-12 or 0-13 teams that make your win vs #4 Penn State rather useless because your SOS dives into the 50s.

The point is the SOS system currently penalizes a team that beats three Top 15 teams but several 110th ranked SIMs too harshly and rewards a team for beating more middle-of-the-pack teams but no true top team.  And everyone knows that beating a couple of top teams is more difficult than beating eight 40th ranked teams.
That pretty much sums up my point.

For the worlds currently in the bowl games top 20 BCS teams when playing top 20 Non BCS teams are 11-2.
9/23/2010 10:53 AM
plague
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"I also don't think just because you have losses to higher ranked teams, you have a better team than me."

I brought this quote up for a reason. I am not arguing who has the better team, my argument is who deserves to play in the NC game. If you want to play in the NC game you should have to prove it. Going undefeated against non factor teams is not enough to make a NC game even if you think you have the best team in the nation. I showed real life examples.

P.S. there is exceptions to the rule based on how other top teams perform and who they play/beat, I just don't think this 1 example is the exception.
9/23/2010 11:09 AM (edited)
nelsonba25
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Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 11:09:00 AM (view original):
"I also don't think just because you have losses to higher ranked teams, you have a better team than me."

I brought this quote up for a reason. I am not arguing who has the better team, my argument is who deserves to play in the NC game. If you want to play in the NC game you should have to prove it. Going undefeated against non factor teams is not enough to make a NC game even if you think you have the best team in the nation. I showed real life examples.

P.S. there is exceptions to the rule based on how other top teams perform and who they play/beat, I just don't think this 1 example is the exception.
I guess I don't understand why you keep bringing up your schedule then. You keep pointing out all the teams you've played and their rankings and the rankings of the teams I played. It's been in at least two *long* posts on here. I don't think anyone said Miami should be in the NC game by objective standards (unless I missed it somewhere, which might be the case), only by the WIS standards. 
9/23/2010 11:25 AM
ebel331
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Thanks alot Nelson, you broke the game. 

9/23/2010 11:49 AM
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