Lowly Mid-Major takes over Camp World. Again. Topic

buckeye_jg
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I think we can all agree that there is a flaw in the system.  Teams are going to make the NC game over others that are possibly more deserving based on quality of opponents played on occasion.  Whether the coach is intentionally or unintentionally trying to game the system for an easier shot at an NC appearance can be debated all day (or over multiple days as proven by this thread!).  Personally, I like to play as tough of a schedule as I feel my team can handle.  If I have a team that I feel can compete with elites and top notch programs, I will play them.  I'm sure Nelson doesn't feel his team is up to competing with the best yet, so he scheduled winable games.  His Non-Conf opponents could have easily taken a dump and he would've been screwed, but as it turns out, they did pretty well.  Playing in a mostly full conf. with good coaches who know how to maximize their SOS worth doesn't hurt either.
9/23/2010 12:18 PM
willgibson
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Posted by ebel331 on 9/23/2010 11:49:00 AM (view original):

Thanks alot Nelson, you broke the game. 

That. Bastard.

And to think of all the time I've wasted in Bryant to get an elite after being sold a bill of goods about the enormous advantages that it would confer on me. Now, it turns out all I had to do was find a midmajor, make 11 friends, get them to hijack the rest of the schools in the conference and convince them to schedule shrewdly and "POW" -- I'd be in the national title game. Because we all know how easy it will be to recruit from Miami OH, what with the overabundance of quality recruits in the rust belt. You'd never be troubled by elites -- your Michigans, Ohio States, Notre Dames, Tennessees and Penn States -- are all too busy scheduling games against each other to trouble you during recruiting.

I feel violated. Raped might not be too strong of a word. WIS customer service is going to be hearing about this so they can immediately start not caring about it. I swear to God I'll get you for this nelson!
9/23/2010 1:02 PM
polabonez
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I'll say this - Recruiting is a ***** in the MAC.  6 Teams in OHIO, 3 in MI, 1 in IL, 1 in IN, and one in Buffalo, NY.  Buffalo is obviously the furthest away from the pack (509 miles from the furthest school), so if you take that out, you have 11 teams basically on top of each other fighting for recruits in OHIO/INDIANA/ ILLINOIS.  And once that DL Ohio State is going to pass  on after signings that you have been drooling over getting a shot at, you show up at the same time as the other three conf mates who have been waiting.  Recruiting at any Non-BCS is a challenge, but at LEAST Conf USA has a little room to move with 4 teams in TX, 1 in NC, 1 in TN, 1 in OK, 1 in FL, 1 in WV, 1 in AL, 1 in MS, 1 in LA.  (Yes that was a Big Mac > Conf USA Stab, :) )

But that's the fun part.   In the perfect world, in the perfect game, all of these worlds are full at the top levels.  Imagine trying to succeed at D1AA just to get ANY job at D1A waiting to see who gets fired.  You don't have to rebuild a SIM team because all teams at least have human signed coaches.  And with full worlds, the Northeast recruiting pool gets a little smaller when all of the NE  teams are filled.   And very rarely will you be able to have a team with all 90/90 Lines and 90/90/90 RB's making games against similar built teams a toss up.

Scheduling 40 WIS Teams for NC Bids because the Non BCS conference is full, or having to schedule Top 5 teams every game because the Big 12 has 5 SIMS isn't a problem.  WIS Rankings are more accurate since more teams are beating up on each other and not Sims.  The game is much more challenging.

But it's not a perfect world, or a perfect game.  And if WIS Designed this game for worlds to be full and for that perfect world strategy, than I think the logic behind the rankings is probably accurate.  The only flaw is the fact that the worlds don't fill up.  

But starting a new world (YOST) is instant $$ for customers that are already here so we can race to D1A, and it pushes that perfect world vision back a little farther.

My 2 cents.  Which isn't worth much since I'm losing to a SIM in a level 1 bowl today from the BIG MAC, I know...  but still.



9/23/2010 5:16 PM (edited)
polabonez
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And I just realized that I blabbed all of that to get to my other point.  Many of us "50 WIS RANK" Coaches are still putting our MAC teams together.  So yeah whoever comes out of the  MAC undefeated will probably slide into the NC Game.  But once the teams get more leveled out (like the BCS teams) than the OOC is going to have to be scheduled harder to afford an in-conf loss.
9/23/2010 2:48 PM (edited)
tcochran
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agreed, if the worlds were pretty full, especially at D1 it would not be an issue

the lack of players in all worlds is the biggest problem
9/23/2010 1:45 PM
buckeye_jg
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Good points bonez.

I was wondering how a full MAC has affected recruiting by the Big Ten elites.  Being at Iowa, I have noticed a few MAC teams on recruits I desired, but I haven't had to make any major changes to how I recruit....yet.  I think once you guys have 4-5 seasons under your belts and are pulling major bowl cash, that will change.

With Power Conf. USA being more spread out, will the impact it has on recruiting for BCS teams in the general area be less than what the MAC will do to the Big Ten?  
9/23/2010 1:49 PM
polabonez
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I know I haven't had much impact..... yet.   But Having that one little area of the world filled with 12 owners when generally there would be  5 or 6 human teams in the area is going to have somewhat of an impact whether it's BCS, Non-BCS, or whatever.

But as you already pointed out, since the MAC got 8 teams into bowls this season, more firepower next season will result in more aggressive recruiting, I'm sure.


9/23/2010 3:09 PM
jtwhiz
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Posted by polabonez on 9/23/2010 3:09:00 PM (view original):
I know I haven't had much impact..... yet.   But Having that one little area of the world filled with 12 owners when generally there would be  5 or 6 human teams in the area is going to have somewhat of an impact whether it's BCS, Non-BCS, or whatever.

But as you already pointed out, since the MAC got 8 teams into bowls this season, more firepower next season will result in more aggressive recruiting, I'm sure.


The sheer cash that will be thrown around during recruiting in the midwest in a few seasons will be mindboggling. I'm going to have some terrible recruiting classes, I'm sure. While the price for top players is sure to rise, I think the biggest impact is that getting even moderately decent backups will be near impossible.
9/23/2010 4:31 PM
plague
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Posted by nelsonba25 on 9/23/2010 11:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by plague on 9/23/2010 11:09:00 AM (view original):
"I also don't think just because you have losses to higher ranked teams, you have a better team than me."

I brought this quote up for a reason. I am not arguing who has the better team, my argument is who deserves to play in the NC game. If you want to play in the NC game you should have to prove it. Going undefeated against non factor teams is not enough to make a NC game even if you think you have the best team in the nation. I showed real life examples.

P.S. there is exceptions to the rule based on how other top teams perform and who they play/beat, I just don't think this 1 example is the exception.
I guess I don't understand why you keep bringing up your schedule then. You keep pointing out all the teams you've played and their rankings and the rankings of the teams I played. It's been in at least two *long* posts on here. I don't think anyone said Miami should be in the NC game by objective standards (unless I missed it somewhere, which might be the case), only by the WIS standards. 
I was comparing my schedule to your schedule because my SOS was 5th, while your SOS was 3rd. I could of used Ohio St who had the 4th ranked SOS and played 6 teams in the top 23, or USC who had the 6th ranked SOS who played 5 teams in the top 15, but I used my schedule, I figured that was enough. The reason I focused on SOS because that is the part of the system that to me appears to be the problem.

In my opinion more credit in the rankings should be given to scheduling top 20 teams, and less credit for playing mediocre teams, in reality  when you take a championship quality team there is no difference between beating a 0-13 win team instead of a 5-8 win team, but in WIS rankings there is a noticable difference.  I also feel the bonus given at the end of the season for a team being undefeated is  part of the problem, that encourages coaches to take on a lesser schedule..
9/24/2010 7:56 AM (edited)
ebel331
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Of course there's a difference between playing an 0-13 team and a 5-8 team.  Especially when the 5-8 team has a human coach playing most games against other human coaches while the 0-13 is a simai. 

That's how 1-12 Marshall beats FSU while a simai team couldn't do that in a million simulations.  FSU was a huge individual favorite over each of the 3 CUSA teams it played last season, but a smaller favorite to get through all 3 of them, which it didn't do.  And it's that much tougher to get through a conference schedule of 8 human teams.  Or 14. 

Just like the arguments you used to make about how unfair the elite system was, you completely ignore the coaching aspect.  It doesn't matter what the general success rate of midmajors v. BCS or top20 or whatever because generally those midmajors are not coached by users who have thousands of GD wins, multiple IA titles or dropped down from Elites to coach them. 

9/24/2010 10:11 AM
vhoward415
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Posted by ebel331 on 9/24/2010 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Of course there's a difference between playing an 0-13 team and a 5-8 team.  Especially when the 5-8 team has a human coach playing most games against other human coaches while the 0-13 is a simai. 

That's how 1-12 Marshall beats FSU while a simai team couldn't do that in a million simulations.  FSU was a huge individual favorite over each of the 3 CUSA teams it played last season, but a smaller favorite to get through all 3 of them, which it didn't do.  And it's that much tougher to get through a conference schedule of 8 human teams.  Or 14. 

Just like the arguments you used to make about how unfair the elite system was, you completely ignore the coaching aspect.  It doesn't matter what the general success rate of midmajors v. BCS or top20 or whatever because generally those midmajors are not coached by users who have thousands of GD wins, multiple IA titles or dropped down from Elites to coach them. 


9/24/2010 10:58 AM
dravz
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Posted by ebel331 on 9/24/2010 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Of course there's a difference between playing an 0-13 team and a 5-8 team.  Especially when the 5-8 team has a human coach playing most games against other human coaches while the 0-13 is a simai. 

That's how 1-12 Marshall beats FSU while a simai team couldn't do that in a million simulations.  FSU was a huge individual favorite over each of the 3 CUSA teams it played last season, but a smaller favorite to get through all 3 of them, which it didn't do.  And it's that much tougher to get through a conference schedule of 8 human teams.  Or 14. 

Just like the arguments you used to make about how unfair the elite system was, you completely ignore the coaching aspect.  It doesn't matter what the general success rate of midmajors v. BCS or top20 or whatever because generally those midmajors are not coached by users who have thousands of GD wins, multiple IA titles or dropped down from Elites to coach them. 

kkthx thread's over

move along
9/24/2010 11:14 AM
tcochran
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Marshall gets one fluke win and you justify that versus data that covers every bowl season?

That's like touting your non-con schedule every season, then declining my challenges two years in a row so you can schedule more of the same type teams in your conference - human coached, but not a threat... Oh wait.
9/24/2010 11:48 AM
ebel331
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Cochring, it's just too bad you couldn't sneak Oklahoma into last year's title game.  It would have been fun to collect the 3peat trophy with a blowout win over an Elite with a blowhard coach.  But it was still enjoyable to watch you get demolished by Bama.  Shutout in the 2nd half!?  HAHA, most of the CUSA coaches had a good chuckle at that one.   

I definitely haven't touted my schedule this season.  It's obviously pretty soft and not the noncon I've been playing during title run.  But like I said before, no team in Camp has a better record vs Elites than Central Florida the past 5-6 seasons.  I don't even know if that's true. I dont track all the teams.  Maybe you can find one?  I mean there's 14 elites. I'm sure at least one of them must have done better against other Elites than some lowly midmajor school from POWER Conference USA.  Right?
9/24/2010 1:57 PM
buckeye_jg
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BCS BUSTER ALERT IN STAGG!!!

Kent St. 9-0 with a #2 WIS ranking.
9/24/2010 3:29 PM
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Lowly Mid-Major takes over Camp World. Again. Topic
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