Here's  my situation.   I have a progressive team that has two full time 2b and no SS.  One is (B+/A-) and the other is (B+/B).   I figure the 1st guy will play like a C+ range SS and the 2nd guy will be close to a C- range SS.

I think I am better off leaving the higher range guy at 2b.

Any thoughts?

I agree. I would go with the higher range guy at 2B.

An SS will get more chances over the course of a season, so I would put the better player there. I also doubt one way or another would have any significant effect on DPs.

Here's some numbers from using Dave Cash as a SS in one Icon league.

1972 (A/A+) 145 GP, 1,008.0 Inn, 21 E, .964 Fld%, 10+, 0-
1973 (B-/B) 86 GP, 675.3 Inn, 21 E, .948 Fld%, 0+, 4-
1974 (B-/A-) 123 GP, 1,100.0 Inn, 48 E, .928 Fld%, 0+, 8-

I'm pretty sure all these seasons were since the newest fielding update.

Just checking some of my teams, it is sure the ss will get more chances, my choice would be to put the range there.

Minnow-

Have you read John's thread about IF range?  I bumped it.   It appears that 2b range is more significant in turning double plays.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/16/2010 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Minnow-

Have you read John's thread about IF range?  I bumped it.   It appears that 2b range is more significant in turning double plays.

I would have said to put the better range at SS and give yourself better overall range.  Especially in a Progressive where you don't have the best hitters at every position on every team.  It seems you still have ample range for a progressive.

That being said, John was smarter than all of us so I would do what he said. Viva le John!

the difference is really negligible. i don't know what the expectation is for DPs in the mid-range, but my guess is that there is very little difference between a B and a B+ or even a B+ and a C. you want to get as many guys as close to A+ as you can. in a vacuum i would probably prefer A+ at 2B and C- at SS to a pair of B+ guys.

That what I was thinking.   A-/C- is better than B/C+

Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/16/2010 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Minnow-

Have you read John's thread about IF range?  I bumped it.   It appears that 2b range is more significant in turning double plays.

It's great work really, but it's just scraping the surface. It's inability to clearly define a DP opportunity (not only runner on 1st <2 outs, but the amount of balls hit in these situations that were potential DPs), and it's small sample size limit it's findings. (This is in no way a knock, the amount of work it would take to find this information is just not worth it). What it does seem to show is that range is indeed correlated to DPs...

When comparing 2B/SS, it's pretty easy to hypothesize that the 2B will play a bigger role in DPs since he'll be involved in more. While 6-3 DPs are more common than 4-3 DPs, the 5-4-3 DP will more than make up for that difference. I'm betting if we isolated 6-4-3 and 4-6-3 DPs, we'd find similar correlations between 2B and SS range. Anyway, DPs are a by-product of allowing baserunners, allowing a ball in play, and having good range. They're situational and useless to plan for/rely on. The better play is always to just not allow base runners in the first place.

So yeah, I don't know. I haven't played near the games you guys have and really don't know if you'll have a better +/- with A-/C- when compared to B/C+. I find that there really isn't a huge difference unless you have A+ or D- guys... Then again my teams generally finish close to last in the league in +/- ratio so what do I know. If jfranco and you both lean that the A- 2B will produce enough + plays to counter any extra negatives at SS, I would go with that.

Posted by minnow on 11/16/2010 1:14:00 PM (view original):
An SS will get more chances over the course of a season, so I would put the better player there. I also doubt one way or another would have any significant effect on DPs.

Here's some numbers from using Dave Cash as a SS in one Icon league.

1972 (A/A+) 145 GP, 1,008.0 Inn, 21 E, .964 Fld%, 10+, 0-
1973 (B-/B) 86 GP, 675.3 Inn, 21 E, .948 Fld%, 0+, 4-
1974 (B-/A-) 123 GP, 1,100.0 Inn, 48 E, .928 Fld%, 0+, 8-

I'm pretty sure all these seasons were since the newest fielding update.

By looking at the open league snapshots, the number of chances for SS and 2B is almost the same.

That's good to know... I had pretty much just ran through a few progs I'm in. Does hitter handedness have any effect on ground balls? I was lead to believe they're always pull hitters for homeruns, and pull more balls when hit to the outfield. I was never sure if it related to grounders...

If handedness does translate in to which side a ground ball is hit to more often (again assuming the sim considers players pull the ball mroe), then we would still assume in a progressive league the SS will get more chances. Open leagues will have a greater balance of lefty/righty hitters, while progressive leagues will always have more righties.