i think in order for us to figure this thing out (to the best of our ability w/o looking at the code), we need to list past examples.  i don't think we need to list promises.

in d1 tark last season, i had B+ prestige and my opponent had B-.  he spent about $45k and spent $33k.  the recruit signed w/ me.  he also had a slight distance advantage of 150 miles or so.

oldresorter should have tons of examples like mine (even a few at my expense).  there were times my B+ prestige was killed by his A+ even w/ my 200ish miles distance advantage.

Posted by jetwildcat on 12/10/2010 10:28:00 AM (view original):
my impression has been 1.5x for each full letter in d1, 1.1x in d2 or d3.

thus in d1 a third of a letter grade is 1.144714

Really jet, 1.144714?  Couldn't be 1.1448 or 1.1447, you had to go to 6 decimals, huh?

I think it is 1.33 per grade change, or 2x for a full grade.  d1,2,3 are the same.  REason people think d2/d3 are different, is the money involved is so little in d2/d3 vs d1, that it is both easier to catch up such that prestige is not near as important as in d1, and things like promised starts and minutes mean more in d2 and d3, as they are worth the same at each level (if a promised start is worth 2 HV's, in d1 2 HV's is nothing, in d3 2 HV is hugely important)

Posted by jaisonline on 2/1/2011 9:40:00 AM (view original):
i think in order for us to figure this thing out (to the best of our ability w/o looking at the code), we need to list past examples.  i don't think we need to list promises.

in d1 tark last season, i had B+ prestige and my opponent had B-.  he spent about $45k and spent $33k.  the recruit signed w/ me.  he also had a slight distance advantage of 150 miles or so.

What distance, what was promised? 

I think its linear but im not a very smart guy

REason I say this, I did a chart back when I really cared about the game, sitemailed coaches after battles when I got poached, thinking that the coach at least would be willing to give me the spending data, the curve is all over the map (because all A's are not 4.0, some are 3.9 some or 4.1), but at the end of the day, it was crystal clear to me that the formula was each 1/3 letter grade was worth, well 1/3.  

Posted by reinsel on 2/1/2011 9:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jaisonline on 2/1/2011 9:40:00 AM (view original):
i think in order for us to figure this thing out (to the best of our ability w/o looking at the code), we need to list past examples.  i don't think we need to list promises.

in d1 tark last season, i had B+ prestige and my opponent had B-.  he spent about $45k and spent $33k.  the recruit signed w/ me.  he also had a slight distance advantage of 150 miles or so.

What distance, what was promised? 

i don't want to go off topic but based on my recruiting battles, i don't think promises mean much at least in d1 (comparing to prestige and then miles).  my opponent last season promised the world. i promised nada.  i also lost quite a few recruiting battles to oldresorter where i promised everything and he most likely promised nada.

one last thing, very few coaches seem to really know the way to use the HV to cv ratio the right way, using them correctly may be worth 1/3 a grade of prestige, not that big a deal, but can throw attempts at understanding the formula out of whack.

Makes sense to me...pretty simple.  Fits Jaisonline's battle pretty well too.  And most of the ones I can remember.

I usually use 2x when I have worse prestige and 1.5 when I have better prestige when deciding if I want to battle or not.

Posted by oldresorter on 2/1/2011 9:39:00 AM (view original):
I think it is 1.33 per grade change, or 2x for a full grade.  d1,2,3 are the same.  REason people think d2/d3 are different, is the money involved is so little in d2/d3 vs d1, that it is both easier to catch up such that prestige is not near as important as in d1, and things like promised starts and minutes mean more in d2 and d3, as they are worth the same at each level (if a promised start is worth 2 HV's, in d1 2 HV's is nothing, in d3 2 HV is hugely important)

This is what I thought as well because money spent is so little, so throwing in FR start + PT really throws the equation out of whack at lower levels. But currently, I'm not sure. I'm in a battle with A+ coming off of NC season vs C prestige, and if the 2x for full letter grade holds, then what I spent + the prestige effect pretty much equals his entire recruiting budget. 

Edit: and currently FSS has us as even. 

Posted by brip87 on 2/1/2011 9:41:00 AM (view original):
I think its linear but im not a very smart guy

I agree with the second part of that statement

Posted by oldresorter on 2/1/2011 9:39:00 AM (view original):
I think it is 1.33 per grade change, or 2x for a full grade.  d1,2,3 are the same.  REason people think d2/d3 are different, is the money involved is so little in d2/d3 vs d1, that it is both easier to catch up such that prestige is not near as important as in d1, and things like promised starts and minutes mean more in d2 and d3, as they are worth the same at each level (if a promised start is worth 2 HV's, in d1 2 HV's is nothing, in d3 2 HV is hugely important)

i very strongly disagree that d2/d3 are double per full grade. i could be wrong but figured it was worth putting out the alternative opinion. i feel like its often hard to tell in lower divisions what the situation is because there are fewer battles and the $ involved is low. but i have been in a fair number of d3 to d2 battles with large prestige differences and often compared notes with the other coaches - and IMO there is almost 0 chance prestige is close to 50% per grade, not to mention 100%. too many of those battles were too close, and if i had to spend 300% more instead of 50% more, the numbers wouldn't even have been close.

Posted by gillispie on 2/1/2011 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 2/1/2011 9:39:00 AM (view original):
I think it is 1.33 per grade change, or 2x for a full grade.  d1,2,3 are the same.  REason people think d2/d3 are different, is the money involved is so little in d2/d3 vs d1, that it is both easier to catch up such that prestige is not near as important as in d1, and things like promised starts and minutes mean more in d2 and d3, as they are worth the same at each level (if a promised start is worth 2 HV's, in d1 2 HV's is nothing, in d3 2 HV is hugely important)

i very strongly disagree that d2/d3 are double per full grade. i could be wrong but figured it was worth putting out the alternative opinion. i feel like its often hard to tell in lower divisions what the situation is because there are fewer battles and the $ involved is low. but i have been in a fair number of d3 to d2 battles with large prestige differences and often compared notes with the other coaches - and IMO there is almost 0 chance prestige is close to 50% per grade, not to mention 100%. too many of those battles were too close, and if i had to spend 300% more instead of 50% more, the numbers wouldn't even have been close.

So what's your estimate for prestige difference? The coach I'm battling obviously thinks it's pretty small since he's bent on battling me for him with C prestige vs A+, not to mention my huge advantage in # of ships. 

Posted by tianyi7886 on 2/1/2011 1:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 2/1/2011 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 2/1/2011 9:39:00 AM (view original):
I think it is 1.33 per grade change, or 2x for a full grade.  d1,2,3 are the same.  REason people think d2/d3 are different, is the money involved is so little in d2/d3 vs d1, that it is both easier to catch up such that prestige is not near as important as in d1, and things like promised starts and minutes mean more in d2 and d3, as they are worth the same at each level (if a promised start is worth 2 HV's, in d1 2 HV's is nothing, in d3 2 HV is hugely important)

i very strongly disagree that d2/d3 are double per full grade. i could be wrong but figured it was worth putting out the alternative opinion. i feel like its often hard to tell in lower divisions what the situation is because there are fewer battles and the $ involved is low. but i have been in a fair number of d3 to d2 battles with large prestige differences and often compared notes with the other coaches - and IMO there is almost 0 chance prestige is close to 50% per grade, not to mention 100%. too many of those battles were too close, and if i had to spend 300% more instead of 50% more, the numbers wouldn't even have been close.

So what's your estimate for prestige difference? The coach I'm battling obviously thinks it's pretty small since he's bent on battling me for him with C prestige vs A+, not to mention my huge advantage in # of ships. 

i would put it around 10% per full prestige grade in the lower divisions. i honestly wouldn't bat an eye if seble came out and said it was even less. i didn't hesitate to battle a range schools with c- d3 schools, when outside of prestige, i felt i had the upper hand. i feel prestige is almost negligible at that level.

i had one battle in particular, an a+ d3 vs a- d2, which is a lot, thats a+ to d+ d2 to c+ d2 to b+ d2, 3 1/3 full grades. i won the battle. the other coach had wasted some money on phone calls and such, and was at a distance disadvantage. but i think my raw credit (counting visits, not factoring prestige) was almost for sure less than double. kmason, if you are reading this, would you agree i had done at absolute max, double the visits you had? (it was early in kmason's career, which explains the wasted monies). i honestly feel like it was around 50%, for only slightly more money, maybe a couple k or so extra, - i think you were at like 7-8 and i was around 9k.

anyway, even if you assume i was a great a+, and him a bad a-, and the player had local preference, and i had considering credit on my side (both of those last 2 i can't remember anything about), i can't see how i could have gotten there on 50-100% more effort for 3 and 1/3 grades if prestige was significant. if it was double, i never, ever, not in a million years, could have come close...