I never would have guessed in a million years that Mike would be taking the position that requires an optimistic view of human nature...

So, despite your rambling post about hitmen killing every politician, spouse and business owner, you're not prepared to go full-on stupid?   That seems odd.  

I think you went full on stupid enough for all of us.

I'm pretty sure the post that had all politicians, spouses and businessmen being killed by hitmen was about as stupid as it comes.   Go back and delete it.  Then, just maybe, you can call someone else an idiot.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/25/2011 2:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by genghisxcon on 1/25/2011 2:43:00 PM (view original):
I would guess that much more than 5% is capable of murder. Arguably, 100% may be capable, under the right circumstances. The 5% was just a (ridiculously low, IMO) figure for people who are being held back by legal consequences. And that doesn't mean they'd suddenly start killing everyone they met. It may just mean they'd kill one or two people whom they find dispicable. And you're right, it isn't as simple as point and squeeze. Part of what makes it not so simple are the consequences.


Let's go back to my example. Suppose 500 people you've spoken in the forums are given guns and license to kill you. Are you confident you'll survive? Remember, if 499 don't shoot you, you still lose.

I think it's insane to believe that even 5% of the adult population could murder someone under any circumstance beyond self-defense(which, as you know, is NOT murder).  I think you need to look up the meaning of "murder".   Laws don't stop it.


If you're asking me if there's a hardened criminal capable of murder amongst us, I guess there is that possibility.   I'd bet against it.   

Suppose your new neighbor is a rapist who got off on a technicality. Suppose he's been checking out your 15-year-old daughter. I'm guessing quite a few people would have no problem killing him, especially if they know they wouldn't be punished.

Back to our example. I am not asking you if there is a hardened criminal amonst us. I'm asking if you are sure that there is no one who is willing to get rid of you if there are no consequences.

Posted by antonsirius on 1/25/2011 3:11:00 PM (view original):
I never would have guessed in a million years that Mike would be taking the position that requires an optimistic view of human nature...

It's not optimistic to believe that a limited few are capable of murder. 

Posted by antonsirius on 1/25/2011 3:11:00 PM (view original):
I never would have guessed in a million years that Mike would be taking the position that requires an optimistic view of human nature...

I know, right? And not just optimistic, but ludicrously, naively so.

Posted by genghisxcon on 1/25/2011 3:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/25/2011 2:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by genghisxcon on 1/25/2011 2:43:00 PM (view original):
I would guess that much more than 5% is capable of murder. Arguably, 100% may be capable, under the right circumstances. The 5% was just a (ridiculously low, IMO) figure for people who are being held back by legal consequences. And that doesn't mean they'd suddenly start killing everyone they met. It may just mean they'd kill one or two people whom they find dispicable. And you're right, it isn't as simple as point and squeeze. Part of what makes it not so simple are the consequences.


Let's go back to my example. Suppose 500 people you've spoken in the forums are given guns and license to kill you. Are you confident you'll survive? Remember, if 499 don't shoot you, you still lose.

I think it's insane to believe that even 5% of the adult population could murder someone under any circumstance beyond self-defense(which, as you know, is NOT murder).  I think you need to look up the meaning of "murder".   Laws don't stop it.


If you're asking me if there's a hardened criminal capable of murder amongst us, I guess there is that possibility.   I'd bet against it.   

Suppose your new neighbor is a rapist who got off on a technicality. Suppose he's been checking out your 15-year-old daughter. I'm guessing quite a few people would have no problem killing him, especially if they know they wouldn't be punished.

Back to our example. I am not asking you if there is a hardened criminal amonst us. I'm asking if you are sure that there is no one who is willing to get rid of you if there are no consequences.

The potential of punishment would have no effect if you thought your new neighbor was going to rape your daughter.    The fact that he hadn't would deter anyone who is incapable of murder. 

I'd bet that there is no one on this board capable of MURDER. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/25/2011 3:13:00 PM (view original):
I'm pretty sure the post that had all politicians, spouses and businessmen being killed by hitmen was about as stupid as it comes.   Go back and delete it.  Then, just maybe, you can call someone else an idiot.

Since you are pretty insistent that people interpret your posts correctly, why don't you go back and read mine and then revise your statement.

Posted by creilmann on 1/25/2011 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/25/2011 3:13:00 PM (view original):
I'm pretty sure the post that had all politicians, spouses and businessmen being killed by hitmen was about as stupid as it comes.   Go back and delete it.  Then, just maybe, you can call someone else an idiot.

Since you are pretty insistent that people interpret your posts correctly, why don't you go back and read mine and then revise your statement.

No thanks.   It was stupid enough the first time.

Are you now saying that you didn't state that people would hire hitmen to kill virtually every politician, disagreeable spouse and competing businessman?    Because I'm pretty sure you did.

Posted by genghisxcon on 1/25/2011 3:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/25/2011 2:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by genghisxcon on 1/25/2011 2:43:00 PM (view original):
I would guess that much more than 5% is capable of murder. Arguably, 100% may be capable, under the right circumstances. The 5% was just a (ridiculously low, IMO) figure for people who are being held back by legal consequences. And that doesn't mean they'd suddenly start killing everyone they met. It may just mean they'd kill one or two people whom they find dispicable. And you're right, it isn't as simple as point and squeeze. Part of what makes it not so simple are the consequences.


Let's go back to my example. Suppose 500 people you've spoken in the forums are given guns and license to kill you. Are you confident you'll survive? Remember, if 499 don't shoot you, you still lose.

I think it's insane to believe that even 5% of the adult population could murder someone under any circumstance beyond self-defense(which, as you know, is NOT murder).  I think you need to look up the meaning of "murder".   Laws don't stop it.


If you're asking me if there's a hardened criminal capable of murder amongst us, I guess there is that possibility.   I'd bet against it.   

Suppose your new neighbor is a rapist who got off on a technicality. Suppose he's been checking out your 15-year-old daughter. I'm guessing quite a few people would have no problem killing him, especially if they know they wouldn't be punished.

Back to our example. I am not asking you if there is a hardened criminal amonst us. I'm asking if you are sure that there is no one who is willing to get rid of you if there are no consequences.

You don't even have to go to that extreme.  Sexual predator listings would become hitlists.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/25/2011 3:13:00 PM (view original):
I'm pretty sure the post that had all politicians, spouses and businessmen being killed by hitmen was about as stupid as it comes.   Go back and delete it.  Then, just maybe, you can call someone else an idiot.

Seriously, Mike, between this thread and your defense of birthers, you have no business calling anyone an idiot. You even owe uncleal an apology at this point.

Are you now saying that you didn't state that people would hire hitmen to kill virtually every politician, disagreeable spouse and competing businessman? 

There you go!  You have it about half right.

Sorry, geng, I think I know something about human nature.   You seem to think everyone, or almost everyone, is capable of murder.  Which leaves me to believe you don't know the meaning of the word.   Which is sad because I'm pretty sure you know how to look it up.

Posted by creilmann on 1/25/2011 3:19:00 PM (view original):

Are you now saying that you didn't state that people would hire hitmen to kill virtually every politician, disagreeable spouse and competing businessman? 

There you go!  You have it about half right.

OH BOY!!! Now sexual predators are on your new hit list!!!

Who, exactly, gets to live in your world?  

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/25/2011 3:19:00 PM (view original):
Sorry, geng, I think I know something about human nature.   You seem to think everyone, or almost everyone, is capable of murder.  Which leaves me to believe you don't know the meaning of the word.   Which is sad because I'm pretty sure you know how to look it up.

Well technically, since murder is a legal term, and in this argument it would not be illegal to kill someone, then yes, the murder rate would not increase.  It would drop to zero since it wouldn't exist.  Congratulations!  You win!