Wacky Expected Percentage Results Topic

Can someone with a bigger brain than mine explain how 22 of 24 teams can exceed their Expected Percentages (and of the 2 that didn't, one missed by just .001).  Yes, it was a wacky league -- half the teams had 200K pitching, half had 200K hitting -- but I can't wrap my head around it anyway.

NATIONAL LEAGUE STANDINGS
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East W-L PCT GB Division 1-Run
Games
Extra
Inning
RS RA Exp.
Pct.
Owner LIVE
Philly Schmitters 99-64 0.607 - 27-16 17-13 8-3 2503 2488 0.504 cpdpoet  
Cy Young Can Suck It! 98-65 0.601 1 29-14 14-16 4-3 3163 2861 0.570 verbal kint  
Soccer Scores II 66-96 0.407 32.5 17-25 30-35 19-10 575 991 0.261 yogsloth  
Balsa Bats 56-106 0.346 42.5 12-30 23-29 6-14 496 858 0.268 seamar_116  
Central W-L PCT GB Division 1-Run
Games
Extra
Inning
RS RA Exp.
Pct.
Owner LIVE
Just Score Baby 107-55 0.660 - 30-12 15-14 4-4 3275 2715 0.628 rochayes  
Run Run Reindeer 101-61 0.623 6 29-13 16-13 3-3 3047 2838 0.549 sgsmith  
Pitching Patriots 62-100 0.383 45 16-26 25-33 12-8 577 831 0.337 helmethead1  
Diarrhea 50-112 0.309 57 9-33 21-21 8-14 450 946 0.202 thejuice6  
West W-L PCT GB Division 1-Run
Games
Extra
Inning
RS RA Exp.
Pct.
Owner LIVE
Hit New Show 110-52 0.679 - 25-17 15-18 7-3 3059 2449 0.647 brianjw  
do-overs 105-57 0.648 5 31-11 14-15 2-3 3004 2565 0.607 Oli35  
Token Hitters 64-98 0.395 46 12-30 31-29 6-13 550 824 0.322 msheaf1  
Eierlikor 61-101 0.377 49 16-26 31-20 16-12 365 710 0.242 shawbigred  
AMERICAN LEAGUE STANDINGS
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East W-L PCT GB Division 1-Run
Games
Extra
Inning
RS RA Exp.
Pct.
Owner LIVE
Basketball Scores II 100-62 0.617 - 20-22 12-5 2-1 3116 2825 0.568 yogsloth  
Trentonjoe's O&P Suck 95-67 0.586 5 21-21 13-12 3-2 2908 2250 0.665 boogerlips  
Dream Weaver Pitching 71-91 0.438 29 21-21 29-33 13-10 469 620 0.382 theweave13  
Hitting Optional 60-102 0.370 40 22-20 19-43 10-17 540 725 0.371 pinotfan  
Central W-L PCT GB Division 1-Run
Games
Extra
Inning
RS RA Exp.
Pct.
Owner LIVE
Take 2 118-44 0.728 - 36-6 17-10 3-1 2635 1868 0.708 batandball  
Josh Towers Eggnog All-Stars 94-68 0.580 24 23-19 18-12 5-6 2221 2227 0.498 crazystengel  
I Prefer Borbon in my Eggnog 70-92 0.432 48 11-31 36-30 14-13 706 823 0.428 gardenald  
One Offensive Offense II 67-95 0.414 51 14-28 35-27 10-7 520 763 0.334 jfranco77  
West W-L PCT GB Division 1-Run
Games
Extra
Inning
RS RA Exp.
Pct.
Owner LIVE
My Offense and Pitching Suck 94-68 0.580 - 29-13 17-12 8-2 1797 1683 0.539 Trentonjoe  
King Kong King Kong King Kong King Kong 91-71 0.562 3 31-11 18-6 5-1 2558 2777 0.445 cuppie1  
No Hit KAOS 72-90 0.444 22 19-23 32-39 14-16 439 605 0.367 uncleal  
P36.2H3.8 34-128 0.210 60 5-37 17-30 5-21 341 1072 0.107 SophieGiants
 
2/28/2011 1:23 PM

I'm probably not smart enough but I will try. The short answer is that the pythagorean win theory breaks down with ridiculous run totals, which this league has. Here's a bit of math:

==========

After further review, I (Clay) have come to the conclusion that the so-called Smyth/Patriot method, aka Pythagenpat, is a better fit. In that, X = ((rs + ra)/g)0.285, although there is some wiggle room for disagreement in the exponent. Anyway, that equation is simpler, more elegant, and gets the better answer over a wider range of runs scored than Pythagenport, including the mandatory value of 1 at 1 rpg.[3]

These formulas are only necessary when dealing with extreme situations in which the average number of runs scored per game is either very high or very low. For most situations, simply squaring each variable yields accurate results.

From this link: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/glossary/index.php?mode=viewstat&stat=136

==========

So I think that "x" they are talking about is the exponent to use. If that's right then the proper exponent would be ~5.82 and not 2. So you can see why things would be off a bit.

using that, only 16 of the 24 teams are above their EXP%.
 

Team Record ACT% RS RA EXP% EXP181 EXP582 582>ACT%
Philly Schmitters  99-64  0.607 2503 2488 0.504 0.503 0.509 yes
Cy Young Can Suck It!  98-65  0.601 3163 2861 0.57 0.545 0.642 no
Soccer Scores II  66-96  0.407 575 991 0.261 0.272 0.040 yes
Balsa Bats  56-106  0.346 496 858 0.268 0.271 0.040 yes
Just Score Baby  107-55  0.66 3275 2715 0.628 0.584 0.749 no
Run Run Reindeer  101-61  0.623 3047 2838 0.549 0.532 0.602 yes
Pitching Patriots  62-100  0.383 577 831 0.337 0.341 0.107 yes
Diarrhea  50-112  0.309 450 946 0.202 0.207 0.013 yes
Hit New Show  110-52  0.679 3059 2449 0.647 0.599 0.785 no
do-overs  105-57  0.648 3004 2565 0.607 0.571 0.715 no
Token Hitters  64-98  0.395 550 824 0.322 0.325 0.087 yes
Eierlikor  61-101  0.377 365 710 0.242 0.231 0.020 yes
Basketball Scores II  100-62  0.617 3116 2825 0.568 0.544 0.639 no
Trentonjoe's O&P Suck  95-67  0.586 2908 2250 0.665 0.614 0.817 no
Dream Weaver Pitching  71-91  0.438 469 620 0.382 0.376 0.165 yes
Hitting Optional  60-102  0.37 540 725 0.371 0.370 0.153 yes
Take 2  118-44  0.728 2635 1868 0.708 0.651 0.881 no
Josh Towers Eggnog All-Stars  94-68  0.58 2221 2227 0.498 0.499 0.496 yes
I Prefer Borbon in my Eggnog  70-92  0.432 706 823 0.428 0.431 0.291 yes
One Offensive Offense II  67-95  0.414 520 763 0.334 0.333 0.097 yes
My Offense and Pitching Suck  94-68  0.58 1797 1683 0.539 0.530 0.594 no
King Kong King Kong King Kong King Kong  91-71  0.562 2558 2777 0.445 0.463 0.383 yes
No Hit KAOS  72-90  0.444 439 605 0.367 0.359 0.134 yes
P36.2H3.8  34-128  0.21 341 1072 0.107 0.112 0.001 yes


  ExP181 is using 1.81 as an exponent. ExP582 is using 5.82 as an exponent.

2/28/2011 1:50 PM
Thanks, jfranco.  That's a little over my head, but the gist seems to be that the Pythagorean method (used by WIS) is based on the number of runs that should be scored in a typical baseball game, while the other method allows for a greater range of results (which is obviously what this league had).  Is that right?
2/28/2011 2:18 PM
That's about right. It's a little over my head too. But the pythagorean EXP% that WIS uses was derived for "normal" leagues that are around 4 runs per game. This league was around 10 so it's way outside the intended purpose. The further away from 4 you get, the worse the results will be.

BP has a way of modifying the EXP% for outlier leagues but it's a little over my head so I'm not 100% sure if I have it right.

What the change in exponent does is push the extreme teams more to the extremes. Philly Schmitters only go from .504 EXP% to .509 EXP% with the changed exponent. But Take 2 goes from .708 to .881 and P36.2H3.8 goes from .107 to .001 (which can't be right, but is hysterical)
2/28/2011 2:49 PM
So, I guess this answered that offence is more important than pitching, no?
2/28/2011 3:54 PM
No.  Results measured at extremes should not be applied to the rest.
2/28/2011 4:14 PM
Posted by bottomlee on 2/28/2011 3:54:00 PM (view original):
So, I guess this answered that offence is more important than pitching, no?
Well this league showed that offense + fielding >>> pitching alone. Remember, the hitters were at 0% so they were also fielding at 0%. Which meant each pitching team allowed a few hundred unearned runs.

Or, more accurately, this league showed that a helluva lot of offense is better than a pretty good amount of pitching. Because in general, it is better to have more pitching. If you had a team that scored and allowed 600 runs, and you gave them 100 marginal runs, they'd be better off applying those runs to the pitching side of the equation:

RS RA Pyth
600 600 0.500
700 600 0.569
600 500 0.582

However, if you gave them a choice of 300 less runs allowed or 1000 more runs scored, they would much prefer the offense (though it's closer than you might think):

RS RA Pyth
600 600 0.500
1600 600 0.855
600 300 0.778



2/28/2011 4:36 PM
It would actually be interesting to run this league again and take the fatigue out of it.

"Hitting" teams would get ~1600 innings of crappy pitching
"Pitching" teams would get 8 semi-decent fielders with 700 PA who can't hit their way out of a paper bag.
2/28/2011 4:41 PM
Wacky Expected Percentage Results Topic

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