FAQs on Progressives Topic

Man, why is this so difficult to comprehend.

Your Randy Johnson scenario just would NOT (likely) happen. WHY would ANYONE with a lick of common sense trade Randy Johnson away for a 1st Rd. pick in the next draft that they were NOT intending to use (by keeping 25 players!)????

That's insane. Your argument is a red herring.
You should NOT be able to trade a "valuable asset" (such as a draft pick in a progressive league) that you don't (or never EVER did) possess/own.
Simple.

In EVERY progressive league I've ever been in (not that many!) you do NOT get picks in the next draft unless you post a keeper list that requires the replenishing of roster spots. (24 or less). Call up too many guys from IR in one single season and you just have to cut more than you bring onto the roster (from IR) or you don't get any picks. Why should you be able to trade a pick just because you can't handle a roster and manage roster spots/openings. It's a part of the process. management of the roster.

Until you reduce your roster below 25 players (thru the keeper list) you don't have or get a draft pick. Can't trade what you don't have!
5/4/2016 11:11 AM
Say I keep 24 players, I now get a 1st round pick.
Say there is another team that needs 7 players(and has to go through 7 rounds to finish his roster)
Can I trade him my 2nd and 3rd round picks so he doesnt have to wait through 7 rounds..........NO.........I dont own my 2nd and 3rd round picks.
You dont own a pick until you pay for it (leave an open roster spot) Contrarian traded the pick before he owned it, and now he has to finish paying for it(by keeping only 24 players).
5/4/2016 11:27 AM (edited)
Posted by grayfoxx on 5/4/2016 11:27:00 AM (view original):
Say I keep 24 players, I now get a 1st round pick.
Say there is another team that needs 7 players(and has to go through 7 rounds to finish his roster)
Can I trade him my 2nd and 3rd round picks so he doesnt have to wait through 7 rounds..........NO.........I dont own my 2nd and 3rd round picks.
You dont own a pick until you pay for it (leave an open roster spot) Contrarian traded the pick before he owned it, and now he has to finish paying for it(by keeping only 24 players).
In the leagues I run you could make that trade. Then again, I've spelled that out in the rules of said leagues by saying your own all of your picks regardless of how many players you keep. I just believe that if a draft goes 7 rounds (as per your example), all teams own 7 rounds worth of picks. If you can't use them, you pass or trade them to teams who can. If I need 7 picks, you can bet I'd rather have your 2nd and 3rd round pick than take my 6th and 7th round pick, and I'd gladly make a trade to move up to your picks.

But the point is that I've spelled this out in the rules of the league, so everyone is aware of it.

It comes down to which rule set you want to play under. If you own all your picks for next season regardless of keepers, then it doesn't matter how many keepers you have and you can trade away any amount of future picks. If you are not awarded picks until you post your keepers are awarded picks based on the number of keepers, the rules state you can't trade extra picks you don't use and for every future pick traded, you must cut 1 additional player below 25. I just think that this particular rule set makes trading more difficult for future seasons...
5/4/2016 12:35 PM
laramiebob, forget who the pitcher is. Big Unit or whomever. If I get a player I want in the trade, I now have a 25th player that fills my roster.

I was going to keep 24 in 1997. But I was able to trade the first round pick for a player I wanted. Now I am not going to need any draft picks. Because I traded one to get a player I wanted, Randy Johnson or Marv Throneberry, whomever.

Now I won't need a pick. But did that pick exist when I traded it? If it did not, then the owner I traded it to just got ripped off cause he traded me Randy Johnson for literally nothing. This is your position. And yours grayfoxx. If it did, then your argument does not hold water. It can't be both.

Either: 1) no one should ever be allowed to trade a future draft pick - and ALL draft picks are by definition future since until you make the pick or at least until you make out the keeper's list (if your argument is assumed to hold), - but especially picks for a future season draft are - OR 2) the picks exist before the keepers list and can be traded. It can't be both.
5/4/2016 12:36 PM
I agree it can't be both. But your scenario was........... YOU traded a pitcher (Johnson) for a 1st Rd. pick in the NEXT draft. Now you have 24 players. The only way to NOT need (or use) your 1st Rd. pick in that next draft is by adding a player to your roster before the draft. (off of IR or perhaps a 2 for 1 trade, etc) Do that and you don't have use for that 1st rounder you JUST traded your pitcher (RJ or whoever) to get!!!

WHY would you ever do that?? It's illogical. A roster mismanagement mistake. Shouldn't happen.

I do (also) agree with Frazzman80's comment that "... that this particular rule set makes trading more difficult for future seasons... "
I believe it does, perhaps needfully, but it doesn't make it impossible. It just requires the owner/GM's to manage their rosters very carefully when considering trading future draft picks. Trading a 4th rounder 2 (or 3) drafts down the road SHOULD (IMO) be difficult...... and the owner doing it must consider carefully. Will I have that many picks?? When rebuilding you likely will. But, when your squad is real close and you ONLY want to release a guy or two then you just can NOT trade a future late pick when you know you have that situation.

As long as it is clearly spelled out within the rules HOW future picks are gonna be handled than there is no issue.
IF NOT spelled out clearly.......... you're looking for a likely dispute at some point.
5/4/2016 1:21 PM
Can't see joining a league where I was asked to divine roster moves years down the road.
5/4/2016 7:08 PM
LB, in the example I just gave I traded a draft pick for the pitcher, but again, you are focusing on details - it reminds me of when I taught English to Italians - the phrase "it takes" - ci vuole in Italian - "It takes 10 minutes to cook spaghetti" - was my example of how to use the phrase to discuss how much time things take to do. One guy raises his hand, "But professor, 10 minutes is way too long to cook spaghetti !"

The point is whoever it is that trades the draft pick either had one or did not. If they trade a draft pick then they get a player for it, it could fill their keepers to 25. Now did the pick exist or not?
5/5/2016 2:24 AM
regarding spaghetti, you know I always enjoy stirring the pot
5/5/2016 8:32 AM
Prof. OK, from the reverse angle. On the other side. You have it correct. RULE should read to make things clear.

Draft picks are not "possessed" until the corresponding final "keeper list" has been posted. Teams will be awarded draft picks in equal portions with the available roster spaces as posted on that corresponding "keeper list". While future draft picks are allowed to be traded up to and including X Years in advance, owners/GM's must pay particular attention to this "possession" rule. Teams MUST create roster space/draft picks to allow themselves the ability to trade any specific future draft pick. In essence you can't trade what you never possessed.

My comment here---- Trading a 1st Rd. pick to another team while carrying 25 players opens the door for common occurrences of collusion between friendly owners or between 2 teams. The trading partner receiving the 1st Rd pick is getting a real and quite valuable asset, while the owner trading away the 1st Rd. pick is essentially just choosing WHO to give the pick to because HE (or She) can't even use it! It's a potential huge problem and possibly very unfair. The owner trading away his 1st Rd. pick MUST pay some price. That price (IMO) NEEDS to be the LOSS of a 1st Rd. pick. (He traded away a 1st Rd. pick---He should lose one!) This Necessitates a compensatory pick, or the filling of the roster spot thru an unbalanced trade. My 2 cents as clear as I can make it.
5/5/2016 9:23 AM
You DONT have a 1st round pick unless you show up with 24 keepers - if you trade the 1st round pick away mid-season, you still must show up with 24 keepers.
5/5/2016 11:53 AM
I disagree, grayfoxx. I paid for the team I should be able to draft as few or as many players as I wish. I won't be dictated to. I DON'T have a first round pick because I traded it.
While I wouldn't mind joining a league that had this rule, I would quit a league that tried to invoke it as a new one.
5/5/2016 3:18 PM
Posted by gbakker on 5/5/2016 3:18:00 PM (view original):
I disagree, grayfoxx. I paid for the team I should be able to draft as few or as many players as I wish. I won't be dictated to. I DON'T have a first round pick because I traded it.
While I wouldn't mind joining a league that had this rule, I would quit a league that tried to invoke it as a new one.
Exactly, you paid for the team, now you must follow the rules that are set in place.
5/5/2016 4:09 PM
A different way around this rule is to have a 5(or whatever) round draft first, and THEN make your cuts(to get down to 25)........just like all of the Pro Sports Leagues do.
They dont cut their players and then hold a draft.
5/5/2016 4:10 PM
Obviously a league can set whatever rules it wants, and can expect its owners to abide by them. It should not expect owners to interpret this psychically, however, so I think we need to start a simple movement to have all leagues explicitly state their position on this so there's no ambiguity and controversy.
5/5/2016 8:03 PM
The rule is not in place in the limited number of leagues I'm in. I'm in total agreement with uncleal's post above. grayfoxx, I like the idea.
5/5/2016 8:27 PM
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