Who do you think will be the Next Big thing. Topic

dougsisk
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Sorry Guys, still learning.  What are "cookie" pitchers?
3/13/2011 10:34 AM
Trentonjoe
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"Cookies" are guys that everyone uses because they over produce compared to their cost.

Right now, it appears that deadball pitchers like the 1908 Addie Joss are the top "cookies".

If you go to your team center, on the bottom right their is a "snapshot" link that shows who are the most common players used.  Check that out to find the latest hot players.
3/13/2011 10:44 AM
zubinsum
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Posted by flakfizer on 3/13/2011 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Posted by zubinsum on 3/13/2011 4:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 3/12/2011 9:51:00 PM (view original):
I don't know, some cookies were omnipresent.  The Tony Phillips, Richie Ashburn, teams sucked.

The Cy Williams, Gravy Craavath, Babe Ruth teams will reappear as soon as HR's become easier to hit.


Yes, but you could still create an elite team without Tony or Richie.  I'm not sure one can put together (a non-fatigue) elite team without a cookie pitcher or two.
I just clinched my division with 20 games remaining. My rotation is Russ Ford, Babe Adams, Tiny Bonham, and Harry Krause.  I realize that these aren't exactly obscure (they all have about 70 or more uses in their performance history), but I'm well on my way to 100+ wins with Joss, Pedro, or Maddux.

I won't mention that lineup is embarrasingly cut-and-paste.
I never wrote that one can't win.  I wrote, more or less, that it is very hard to put together an elite team without cookie pitchers.  And again that doesn't mean it can't be done, just that the salary structure of the sim leads one to use the same "bargains" over and over.  I even had a team that used modern low-K pitchers (my rotation was '85 Tudor, '75 Jones and '76 Jones) that I'd call elite.  The problem is that those sorts of teams seem much more rare to me than before the last update.

3/13/2011 2:37 PM
chisox378
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Posted by Trentonjoe on 3/13/2011 10:44:00 AM (view original):
"Cookies" are guys that everyone uses because they over produce compared to their cost.

Right now, it appears that deadball pitchers like the 1908 Addie Joss are the top "cookies".

If you go to your team center, on the bottom right their is a "snapshot" link that shows who are the most common players used.  Check that out to find the latest hot players.
I never seen that snapshot before, that is really cool, thanks T- Joe.
3/13/2011 10:09 PM
knutson
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"Yogic mastery of my mind and body".  85' Sidd Finch
3/14/2011 7:03 PM
teal_leo
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Power!

Currently the most over-priced stats in the SIM are HRs and Ks. When the next update hits and things shift around, I'm hoping the long ball and the heater become the new cookie generators.
3/17/2011 4:23 PM
dahsdebater
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teal_leo, I highly doubt that Ks will EVER be a "cookie generator" - in fact, they've always been overpriced since I started playing this game years and years ago.  In this game the only thing that Ks do is keep runners from advancing.  In reality a strikeout keeps the ball from being put in play and does correlate fairly heavily with OAV (I say fairly heavily in a baseball correlation sense; in a true statistical sense it's quite a weak correlation, but the mere fact that it can be almost unequivocally proven to exist at all makes it a solid baseball correlation).  In the sim it is determined whether a PA results in a hit or an out a step ahead in the decision tree before it determines what type of out occurred.  Thus, high K pitchers are no more likely to record an out than low-K pitchers with the same H/9 and H/9#.  The only difference is in the type of out, with Ks slightly hindering movement on the basepaths.  The only way high strikeout pitchers are going to become cookies is if they either change the decision tree (unlikely) or make strikeouts virtually free.
3/17/2011 5:30 PM
cwillis802
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It seems that if the salary cap for a league is $100 mil or less, all the good teams have the cookie players.  Once you get to $120 mil cap or more and perhaps with different theme rules in place, the cookie players come into play less....OR maybe there are different cookie players for these higher caps??

So far, it seems a little easier to put together a pitching staff (at least for me) than it is putting together a lineup. Getting a good lineup that scores runs consistently is a challenge.  I wonder if any of you veterans who have played a while could give your opinions on differences of playing in smaller cap leagues vs. larger cap leagues. 
3/18/2011 5:34 PM
zubinsum
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Posted by dahsdebater on 3/17/2011 5:30:00 PM (view original):
teal_leo, I highly doubt that Ks will EVER be a "cookie generator" - in fact, they've always been overpriced since I started playing this game years and years ago.  In this game the only thing that Ks do is keep runners from advancing.  In reality a strikeout keeps the ball from being put in play and does correlate fairly heavily with OAV (I say fairly heavily in a baseball correlation sense; in a true statistical sense it's quite a weak correlation, but the mere fact that it can be almost unequivocally proven to exist at all makes it a solid baseball correlation).  In the sim it is determined whether a PA results in a hit or an out a step ahead in the decision tree before it determines what type of out occurred.  Thus, high K pitchers are no more likely to record an out than low-K pitchers with the same H/9 and H/9#.  The only difference is in the type of out, with Ks slightly hindering movement on the basepaths.  The only way high strikeout pitchers are going to become cookies is if they either change the decision tree (unlikely) or make strikeouts virtually free.
It is worse than that.  When a pitcher gets an out on a K, there is almost no chance of a double play.  On the other hand, about 1 in 10 ground balls results in a DP when a runner is at first.  The only advantages of Ks are slightly fewer errors and stretching pitchers for more sim innings. 
3/19/2011 5:09 PM
mixtroy
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Posted by zubinsum on 3/13/2011 4:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 3/12/2011 9:51:00 PM (view original):
I don't know, some cookies were omnipresent.  The Tony Phillips, Richie Ashburn, teams sucked.

The Cy Williams, Gravy Craavath, Babe Ruth teams will reappear as soon as HR's become easier to hit.


Yes, but you could still create an elite team without Tony or Richie.  I'm not sure one can put together (a non-fatigue) elite team without a cookie pitcher or two.
Zube, I'm gonna try it and keep you posted on how it works out, because I love a good challenge.
3/20/2011 3:49 PM
zubinsum
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Posted by mixtroy on 3/20/2011 3:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zubinsum on 3/13/2011 4:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 3/12/2011 9:51:00 PM (view original):
I don't know, some cookies were omnipresent.  The Tony Phillips, Richie Ashburn, teams sucked.

The Cy Williams, Gravy Craavath, Babe Ruth teams will reappear as soon as HR's become easier to hit.


Yes, but you could still create an elite team without Tony or Richie.  I'm not sure one can put together (a non-fatigue) elite team without a cookie pitcher or two.
Zube, I'm gonna try it and keep you posted on how it works out, because I love a good challenge.
Awesome!  Good luck.
3/20/2011 3:58 PM
contrarian23
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My most recent OL championship team (last month I think) had a 4 man rotation of 22 Donohue, 80 Haas, 2008 Marcum, and 2002 Pedro.  I guess you could consider 02 Pedro a cookie, but at least it wasn't the 99-00 version.  No Maddux, no Joss, no deadball era guys...it can be done.

3/20/2011 4:10 PM
dracul
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Posted by contrarian23 on 3/20/2011 4:10:00 PM (view original):

My most recent OL championship team (last month I think) had a 4 man rotation of 22 Donohue, 80 Haas, 2008 Marcum, and 2002 Pedro.  I guess you could consider 02 Pedro a cookie, but at least it wasn't the 99-00 version.  No Maddux, no Joss, no deadball era guys...it can be done.

Your use of Haas and Marcum sounds intriguing. 

I'd love to see their final stats ... and to see what their home park was.

3/20/2011 5:37 PM
contrarian23
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Home park was Petco

Player SN G GS CG SHO W L SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO OAV OBP SLG WHIP ERA
Donohue, Pete 1922 47 41 1 1 14 12 3 3 253.3 248 107 99 11 63 72 .258 .305 .362 1.23 3.52
Haas, Moose 1980 34 33 7 3 17 10 0 0 240.0 229 106 99 24 54 131 .248 .292 .386 1.18 3.71
Martinez, Pedro 2002 34 33 0 0 18 3 0 0 200.3 135 46 41 13 46 202 .187 .240 .283 0.90 1.84
Marcum, Shaun 2008 30 30 0 0 16 5 0 0 172.7 138 65 64 19 62 118 .218 .293 .365 1.16 3.34
Bell, Hi 1933 78 0 0 0 1 6 4 8 107.7 99 38 33 2 29 30 .241 .297 .300 1.19 2.76
Mathers, Robert (P) 2011 37 8 4 0 2 9 1 1 107.7 155 91 82 17 49 44 .338 .402 .523 1.89 6.85
Burgmeier, Tom 1982 58 0 0 0 2 4 2 4 76.3 80 33 32 4 24 34 .270 .327 .348 1.36 3.77
Percival, Troy 2002 54 0 0 0 7 1 1 2 57.7 54 21 18 2 24 49 .241 .315 .304 1.35 2.81
Durham, Scott (AAA/P) 2011 10 2 2 0 1 2 0 0 36.0 56 43 43 7 36 6 .371 .497 .596 2.56 10.75
Tiefenauer, Bobby 1963 24 0 0 0 5 1 11 13 25.7 15 5 4 0 9 17 .172 .250 .195 0.94 1.40
Carlos, Cisco 1967 17 0 0 0 1 0 12 12 17.3 6 2 2 0 7 10 .103 .200 .121 0.75 1.04
Calmus, Dick 1963 13 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 13.3 10 5 5 1 4 6 .217 .280 .326 1.05 3.38
Gilmore, Frank 1888 11 11 6 0 2 9 0 0 88.7 128 78 68 6 37 13 .338 .407 .451 1.86 6.90
Gudat, Marv 1929 24 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 24.3 17 6 6 0 7 7 .189 .255 .289 0.99 2.22
John, Tommy 1982 4 4 0 0 1 3 0 0 21.3 38 20 20 1 0 3 .396 .392 .594 1.78 8.44
Eiland, Dave 1990 20 0 0 0 2 4 2 5 17.3 24 14 13 3 5 7 .312 .354 .532 1.67 6.75
Allison, Mack 1911 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4.3 1 0 0 0 1 0 .071 .133 .143 0.46 0.00
TEAM TOTALS -- 162 162 20 4 93 69 37 49 1464.0 1433 680 629 110 457 749 .255 .314 .373 1.29 3.87
3/20/2011 5:45 PM
mpitt76
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Manny Banuelos
3/21/2011 8:09 PM
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