Again, newbie question. I understand what you're saying about the quality of the hitters in SIM. But why doesn't this seem to hold true for the deadball era pitchers? Addie Joss is also facing lineups better than the 27 Yankees but he seems to dominate. 

This may sound weird, but 1908 Addie Joss was a far, far better pitcher relative to his league than 1989 Greg Maddux by pretty much any statistical measure.

Yeah, I mean...if we're comparing '08 Joss to that version of Maddux, just look at the basic numbers.  Allow me to focus on WHIP once more, since that's where I always start.

He gave up almost half a baserunner per inning more than Joss.   That's a huge, huge difference.   There are literally thousands of pitchers who threw 200+ innings and have better numbers than '89 Maddux.

Substitute in a deadball pitcher with a 1.3 WHIP and he'll most likely suck, too.   He'll just suck in different ways.

Be honest with me guys: Is it possible to win in SIM baseball without using deadball era pitchers? In an open league. 

Posted by badcentury on 3/18/2011 6:19:00 PM (view original):
Be honest with me guys: Is it possible to win in SIM baseball without using deadball era pitchers? In an open league. 

yes, it's possible and is done often.

Posted by badcentury on 3/18/2011 6:19:00 PM (view original):
Be honest with me guys: Is it possible to win in SIM baseball without using deadball era pitchers? In an open league. 

Absolutely.  Three of the most popular OL pitchers in SIM are Pedro `00 and Maddux `94 and `95.  Other popular modern pitchers include Gibson, Koufax, Saberhagen, Marichal, Vida Blue and Kevin Brown, but there are literally dozens of other modern starters who are used successfully in SIM all the time.  Low normalized ERC, OAV and WHIP are not unique to deadballers.  What is almost unique to deadballers is their ability to suppress home runs, especially in a -3 or -4 HR park like the Astrodome.  But there are great modern day pitchers who are good at suppressing HR's, like `94 Maddux, and even a guy like Pedro `00 who gives up a fair number of homers is lights out dominant in the right park and remarkably popular considering his high cost per IP ($11.7 MM for only 217 innings, but those can be 217 virtually untouchable innings).

Thanks guys. I'm like a sponge soaking up the knowledge...

Posted by elduro25 on 3/14/2011 6:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by badcentury on 3/14/2011 2:10:00 PM (view original):
Okay, my bad, Maddux did not win Cy Young in '89, but he was 19-12 with an ERA of 2.95, pitching his home games at hitter-friendly Wrigley Field.

Without knowing what league type and salary cap you were working with here, let's just start by saying that '89 Maddux shouldn't be that good at all, especially compared to the '94 and '95 versions the thread was discussing.   It's about the 3rd worst version of Maddux you can find.

His WHIP was 1.28, and normalizes to an even worse 1.32.  Wins, ERA, and Cy Young voting are pretty much irrelevant.   Stats-wise, he's on a plain with guys like 2000 Livan Hernandez, 1980 Doyle Alexander, 2008 Mark Buehrle, and and 2005 Jason Marquis.  Don't get caught paying for the brand name.

Good point Elduro because the sim doesn't know names.

Yeah, just ask Willie Mays and Joe Morgan (Though I hear Joe has been doing better recently).