Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/24/2014 1:08:00 PM (view original):
How do you figure?  Career 111 OPS+ as a corner outfielder is barely above average.  That's HOF for you?  Even with his base stealing and his defense, I just can't see it.  I think he'll go in, but he doesn't deserve it.  So I would say he's a likely HOFer.  But by no means HOF caliber.

Hall of FAME.  Discussed many, many times but it's more than "career OPS".   If that's how it was determined, we'd just whip out our stat sheets and say "Yep, HOF" or "Nope, career OPS too low." 

For lack of a better way to put it, Ichiro is like some of the Negro Leaguers who are in the HOF.   He was the first Asian position player to make an impact in MLB.  And he actually played very well in MLB.   He's in HOF and it's deserved.

Or this.

RACIST!!!!

I don't know that he has the numbers to be in the HOF.  One could argue that.     But his "contribution to baseball" puts him in.  There's really no argument on that.

Posted by bottomlee on 6/26/2014 10:56:00 AM (view original):
Right now, his 162g avg production is .318/.361/.413, 212 hits a season, 97 runs, 36/44 sb.

10 Gold gloves.  3 Silved Sluggers.  So, in his era, he was considered pretty damn good.

His "black ink - times leading league",  "grey ink - top ten in league leaders", "hall of fame monitor", all Bill James goofy formula type stats, all rate really well too.  

He'll get the 1st ballot nod.

I think he will get in. I'm not convinced he belongs. I'd put Sheffield in before Ichiro.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2015 11:48:00 AM (view original):
RACIST!!!!

I don't know that he has the numbers to be in the HOF.  One could argue that.     But his "contribution to baseball" puts him in.  There's really no argument on that.

I'll argue against his "contribution to baseball".

He was the most successful Asian player in MLB history. 

So what?  Asian players played MLB before Ichiro and have also gotten a lot of hype.  Hideo Nomo and  Hideki Irabu, to name a few.  They were celebrated just as much as Ichiro when they entered MLB.  I'm not really sold on an argument that he made more of a "contribution to baseball" than the folks who preceded him other than the fact that he stuck around longer with more success.

But the overall numbers . . . he compiled a lot of hits (mostly singles), but didn't have an overly impressive career OBP and had a very weak SLG for a "meh" career OPS.  He was an above average right fielder for a number of seasons, and stole a lot of bases.  But as you said . . . his numbers are borderline for HOF.

Mostly, the HOF hype about Ichiro is "best Japanese MLB player ever".  But take nationality out of it, is he deserving of the HOF?

Aren't there a lot of Negro Leaguers in the HOF?  There can only be one "1st".    There was a "mania" surrounding Ichiro.    ****, the first name on the back of his jersey is unique.   An entire country would make it a point to watch Mariner games.    Surely you admit there was a difference between Ichiro and Nomo/Irabu.

He's a HOFer.   His numbers are good enough and his "fame" can't be questioned.


And you know I hate putting borderline guys in.

There's a shitload of Negro Leaguers in the HOF, and probably a good number of them don't belong.  They were put in by the VC based on little more than anecdotal reputation projected out to "what could have been".  Some are likely very well-deserved, such as Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson to name a few, but the rest are more of a "feel good" action on the part of the special VC's that were established specifically for the Negro League players.

Any maybe you've forgotten how an entire country also made it a point to watch Yankee games when the "Fat Toad" Irabu was signed and was scheduled to start.

I haven't forgotten that the fascination with the Fat Toad lasted a year.    Ichiro played a little longer than that.

Yea!!!!  A longevity award for popularity!!!

This thread has been awfully quiet.

He's a HOFer now!

Still not deserving.

Why do you hate yellow people?

YELLOW LIVES MATTER!!!!!

So let's go 'Punch and Judy" vs "Punch and Judy"

Rod Carew (19 seasons)

Games 2469 Hits 3053 2B 445 3B 112 HR 92 BA .328 OBP .393 OPS .822

Ichiro (15 + seasons)

Games 2452 Hits 3000 2B 350 3B 93 HR 113 BA .314 OBP .357 OPS .762


Basically you have the same # of games... I'd say he compares pretty well with Carew. Though where Ichiro makes up for his short comings in his defensive ability. Carew played 2b and was just 'good' there but he played 1B for more than 1/2 of his games (no Gold Gloves). Ichiro for much of his career was a gold glove calibre Outfielder winning 9 GGs!... So I'd say they are pretty even overall.