Why would WIS ever sub someone who is 80% at a position when there are MULTIPLE players available who are 100% at that same position?  This happens frequently - and just so happened to happen in the 4th quarter of a game 7 in the Conference Finals for my team.  In fact, the player subbed in at SF was worst player available to be subbed in at the 3, according to the position effectiveness of my team.

10:08		105 - 95	Julius Erving is fouled on the turnaround from the right wing. Foul #3 on Scott Padgett, team foul #2.
	IN: M. Landsberger, J. Barry OUT: J. Kidd, S. Padgett		IN: M. Miller, G. Muresan, A. Miller OUT: C. Paul, M. Redd, J. Williams
	Ashland Funktown Mustangs OFF Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten DEF PG J. Barry 100% A. Miller 100% SG K. Bryant 98% J. Erving 100% SF A. Sabonis 99% M. Miller 100% PF M. Landsberger 98% B. Walton 100% C C. Boozer 99% G. Muresan 100%		Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten OFF Ashland Funktown Mustangs DEF PG A. Miller 100% J. Barry 100% SG J. Erving 100% K. Bryant 98% SF M. Miller 100% A. Sabonis 99% PF B. Walton 100% M. Landsberger 98% C G. Muresan 100% C. Boozer 99%
10:08		105 - 96	Julius Erving makes FT 1 of 2. Julius Erving misses FT 2 of 2.
10:07	Kobe Bryant gathers the rebound.	105 - 96
9:58	Julius Erving knocks it away from Arvydas Sabonis and recovers it.	105 - 96
9:46		105 - 98	Gheorghe Muresan makes the contested shot with the assist by Andre Miller.
9:37	Arvydas Sabonis makes the open shot from the right wing following a nice pass from Carlos Boozer.	107 - 98
9:31		107 - 100	Gheorghe Muresan connects on the runner from the right block off the feed from Andre Miller.
9:20	Arvydas Sabonis's turnaround is denied by Bill Walton.	107 - 100
9:19		107 - 100	Mike Miller corrals the rebound.
9:12		107 - 100	Julius Erving misses long on a runner.
9:11	Arvydas Sabonis corrals the rebound.	107 - 100
9:03	Kobe Bryant misses long on a 3pt attempt.	107 - 100
9:02		107 - 100	Bill Walton clears the rebound.
8:57		107 - 102	Gheorghe Muresan dunks it off the feed from Julius Erving.
8:39	Carlos Boozer hits the shot from the left side following a nice pass from Jon Barry.	109 - 102
8:19		109 - 102	Julius Erving clanks the jumper from 10 ft.
8:17		109 - 104	Gheorghe Muresan tips in the miss.
8:12	Mark Landsberger steps out of bounds.	109 - 104
	IN: J. Kidd, S. Padgett OUT: M. Landsberger, J. Barry		IN: C. Paul, M. Redd, J. Williams OUT: J. Erving, G. Muresan, A. Miller
	Ashland Funktown Mustangs OFF Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten DEF PG J. Kidd 97% C. Paul 100% SG K. Bryant 98% M. Miller 100% SF S. Padgett 100% M. Redd 100% PF C. Boozer 99% B. Walton 100% C A. Sabonis 99% J. Williams 100%		Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten OFF Ashland Funktown Mustangs DEF PG C. Paul 100% J. Kidd 97% SG M. Miller 100% K. Bryant 98% SF M. Redd 100% S. Padgett 100% PF J. Williams 100% C. Boozer 99% C B. Walton 100% A. Sabonis 99%

okay, now we're back to normal... but wait...

4:25		119 - 118	Chris Paul is fouled on the bank shot from close range. Foul #2 on Kobe Bryant, team foul #5.
	IN: C. Boozer, M. Landsberger OUT: D. Gadzuric, S. Padgett
	Ashland Funktown Mustangs OFF Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten DEF PG J. Kidd 97% C. Paul 100% SG K. Bryant 98% J. Erving 100% SF A. Sabonis 99% M. Miller 100% PF M. Landsberger 98% R. Tarpley 100% C C. Boozer 99% G. Muresan 100%		Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten OFF Ashland Funktown Mustangs DEF PG C. Paul 100% K. Bryant 98% SG J. Erving 100% J. Kidd 97% SF M. Miller 100% A. Sabonis 99% PF R. Tarpley 100% C. Boozer 99% C G. Muresan 100% M. Landsberger 98%
4:25		119 - 120	Chris Paul makes FT 1 of 2. Chris Paul makes FT 2 of 2.
	Ashland Funktown Mustangs now running Up Tempo offense
4:16	Mark Landsberger misses short on a shot.	119 - 120
4:15		119 - 120	Chris Paul clears the rebound.
4:06		119 - 120	Julius Erving misses short on a floater from the left block.
4:05	Arvydas Sabonis comes down with the rebound.	119 - 120
4:00	Gheorghe Muresan steals the dribble from Carlos Boozer.	119 - 120
3:47		119 - 120	Mike Miller throws it away.
	IN: S. Padgett OUT: A. Sabonis		IN: B. Walton, J. Williams OUT: G. Muresan, R. Tarpley
	Ashland Funktown Mustangs OFF Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten DEF PG J. Kidd 97% C. Paul 100% SG K. Bryant 98% J. Erving 100% SF S. Padgett 100% M. Miller 100% PF M. Landsberger 98% J. Williams 100% C C. Boozer 99% B. Walton 100%		Gheorghe UR Not Forgotten OFF Ashland Funktown Mustangs DEF PG C. Paul 100% K. Bryant 98% SG J. Erving 100% J. Kidd 97% SF M. Miller 100% S. Padgett 100% PF J. Williams 100% M. Landsberger 98% C B. Walton 100% C. Boozer 99%

At least this time it was for a short period of time...

Paul Millsap had fouled out, so he wasn't available, but I did have Kobe Bryant & Pete Chilcutt available, both of which are 100% at SF.  Again, every player on my team had a higher PE at SF than Sabonis.

Every.
Single.
One.

Name	Pos	Salary	Per%	Mid%	Pnt%	Def Rtg	PG Eff%	SG Eff%	SF Eff%	PF Eff%	C Eff%
96-97 Pete Chilcutt	PF	$1,131,423	42	19	40	46	70	87	100	100	100
01-02 Scott Padgett	PF	$2,566,770	29	30	41	43	70	87	100	100	100
08-09 Paul Millsap	PF	$5,804,244	1	35	64	77	70	89	100	100	100
07-08 Kobe Bryant	SG	$9,159,721	25	46	30	90	100	100	100	91	80
08-09 Raja Bell	SG	$1,114,889	53	27	20	70	90	100	99	84	70
02-03 Jon Barry	SG	$3,161,491	50	27	23	72	100	100	97	80	70
09-10 Jason Kidd	PG	$6,949,974	62	20	19	93	100	100	91	74	60
06-07 Carlos Boozer	PF	$7,834,269	0	45	55	95	70	80	90	100	100
09-10 Rodrigue Beaubois	PG	$1,401,048	37	37	26	71	100	100	87	70	60
79-80 Mark Landsberger	C	$3,478,103	0	20	80	71	60	71	86	100	100
04-05 Dan Gadzuric	C	$4,401,702	0	18	82	93	60	70	85	100	100
95-96 Arvydas Sabonis	C	$4,954,098	14	35	50	95	60	70	80	90	100

Should I waste my time submitting a ticket?  I believe we all know how this will go.

Quote post by ashamael on 6/5/2011 2:25:00 PM:

Why would WIS ever sub someone who is 80% at a position when there are MULTIPLE players available who are 100% at that same position?

Paul Millsap had fouled out, so he wasn't available, but I did have Kobe Bryant & Pete Chilcutt available, both of which are 100% at SF.  Again, every player on my team had a higher PE at SF than Sabonis.

Every.
Single.
One.

Yes, every single player had a higher PE at SF than Sabonis.  But, did any other player on your team have as cool of a name? 
I would argue that other than perhaps Rodrigue Beaubois, Arvydas Sabonis by far has the coolest name on your team.  Clearly that's the reason why he was put in at SF, despite his PE.  Makes sense to me.

That answer probably would make more sense than any given by CS.  I remember a similar issue that Sly brought up... he got a ridiculous answer.

Haha! Wow. Yes ash, I did. Here it is.


I think after rereading the original post here, everyone should reread sly's ticket and WIS's response.  Thus even more grand humor.

"#93701
Status: - In Progress
It's Just Business B1tches (NBA33859)

Date
User
8/1/2010 8:24 PM
slymonium
http://whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=7432730&nomenu=1&teamfee=9.95

Please review the box score and tell me why John Stockton was subbed in at SG. He is not listed anywhere in my depth chart. I have 96-97 Jason Kidd who is 100% at SG as my backup SG, yet for some reason Stockton was subbed in.

8/2/2010 2:46 PM
Customer Support
Hi Nick,

Stockton played because 89-90 Michael Jordan on your team was in foul trouble and fouled out in the 3rd quarter.

8/2/2010 4:23 PM
slymonium
Please actually read my post this time, then try to comprehend and give a valid response.

At 6:43 left in the 1st quarter John Stockton was subbed in at SG. So your response above makes zero sense.

The issue: John Stockton is not on my depth chart anywhere. 96-97 Jason Kidd is #2 on the depth chart at SG yet for some reason Stockton was subbed in.

8/3/2010 12:09 PM
Customer Support
Nick,

You have Kidd set as the only backup for both positions. So there will be times where he needs to back up PG and there is no one left to come in at SG. To avoid that you need to set another guy in the depth chart at one of the two positions.

8/3/2010 1:03 PM
slymonium
Again, you need to do a little more research into what I'm saying. I have TWO different Jason Kidd player seasons on my squad.

The 96-97 Kidd is ONLY set at #2 on my depth chart at SG. The 08-09 Kidd is set at #2 at PG.

So, I will pose the question for the third time. Why would John Stockton be subbed in at SG when:
1. He is not listed on my depth chart anywhere
2. 96-97 Jason Kidd is set at #2 SG
3. 96-97 Jason Kidd is not set on my depth chart at any other position.

8/3/2010 1:35 PM
Customer Support
Jordan was in foul trouble and 96-97 Kidd was likely over target minute pace, so it had to find someone else to play there. Any time there is foul trouble it's going to cause odd sub patterns.

8/3/2010 2:54 PM
slymonium
The logic of your statement does not make sense. Kidd was over target minute pace so it had to find a replacement. The replacement it found was someone who was set at zero target minutes.

Kidd was over target minute pace? He played 1:25 in the 1st quarter before being replaced by someone who is not on my depth chart and not 100% at SG. Then he played another 2:50 to close out the 1st.

Stockton (zero target minutes) ended up playing 19 minutes while Kidd only got 13.

8/3/2010 4:23 PM
Customer Support
Kidd had played about 1.5 minutes when he came out, and since there had been only 3 total minutes played in the game he would be on pace to play nearly 24 minutes, which is clearly well above his target of 3.

A player not set in the depth chart is basically Mopup, so their target minutes aren't handled the same way.

8/3/2010 5:32 PM
slymonium
19 minutes for a player not listed on my depth chart is outlandish.

Target minutes relate to players listed on my depth chart. If a player is not listed on my depth chart, why would the sim just assume that it should throw in a player for 19 minutes despite the fact that I purposely did not list him on my depth chart? It just doesn't make sense.

8/3/2010 5:47 PM
Customer Support
Most coaches would be more upset if a guy they had set to low minutes used up a ton of minutes in a game like this and that affected his use for the rest of the season.

8/3/2010 7:55 PM
slymonium
Most coaches would be ****** if Michael Jordan fouled out in 6 minutes, but I wasn't even going to bring that up.

This isn't about me or "most coaches." This is about sim logic. He should not have been subbed in. Who is the coach, me or the sim? If I had wanted Stockton to play, I would have put him in the depth chart, yes?

8/3/2010 8:01 PM
Customer Support
Thanks for the feedback. We'll take it into consideration for future changes.

8/4/2010 10:43 AM
slymonium
Future changes? That must be a joke right? You haven't even released the 09-10 players!
"

After all these years, the substitution logic has never been as good as it should be (especially when a player is in foul trouble or fouls out).

Understatement of the year.

yay!

Another great one:

player A (Kenny Smith) is 100% at PG & SG. player A is only on the depth chart at PG. Player B (John Smith) is 100% at SG & 90% at PG. Player B is not on the depth chart anywhere. What does WIS do? Puts player A at SG & player B at PG. This was mop up duty, so not a huge deal, but again, it's something that should never happen. 

It's things like these fucked up substitutions that actually make me believe that seble is actually doing funny business against owners who are vocal.

2:22		113 - 128	Micheal Ray Richardson makes a bank shot from 14 ft and he's fouled. Foul #3 on Charlie Parrish, team foul #4.
	IN: K. Smith OUT: M. Redd
	Ashland City Mustangs OFF InsertTeamNameHere2 DEF PG J. Smith 100% M. Richardson 97% SG K. Smith 91% S. Scholl 100% SF R. Stafford 100% L. Nance 100% PF A. Gray 100% T. Gugliotta 100% C C. Parrish 100% E. Montross 100%		InsertTeamNameHere2 OFF Ashland City Mustangs DEF PG M. Richardson 97% K. Smith 91% SG L. Nance 100% J. Smith 100% SF S. Scholl 100% R. Stafford 100% PF E. Montross 100% A. Gray 100% C T. Gugliotta 100% C. Parrish 100%

I  once had a team get blown away because its two best players-MJ and Howard-both fouled out within fifteen minutes, and who was sent to play center?

Who else, but my starting point guard?
Muggsy Bogues.
At 5'3", he's the smallest player in the history of the NBA.
He had to play defense against Shaq.

now I would pay top dollar to watch that