Posted by willgibson on 9/6/2011 9:10:00 AM (view original):
I'm in the top bracket (more than $127.201) in Canada and about 29 per cent of my total income went to federal and provincial taxes. I have no idea how that would compare to somebody in the States. I suspect it's probably higher here and I've really got no complaints about it.

There's also a 5 per cent national sales tax called the GST that applies to most goods and services but I have no idea what I paid out last year on that last year.

do you think you are in the 'majority' of wealthy tax payers when you say you have no complaints?

now do the math on your own income and suppose you pay the US equivelent of a top earner - bump up your income taxes to 39.6% (top tier, before bush tax cuts) and add on roughly 10% sales taxes (figuring most top earners live and work near a major city). Also - don't forget to add in roughly 2% of your homes value for property taxes. What is your disposable income looking like now (obviously I'm not asking you to disclose it but just think about it).... Are you still content to pay these taxes?

YES
ITS PATRIOTIC IN TIME OF WARS TO PAY TAXES  ABOVE AND BEYOND

Posted by moy23 on 9/7/2011 9:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by willgibson on 9/6/2011 9:10:00 AM (view original):
I'm in the top bracket (more than $127.201) in Canada and about 29 per cent of my total income went to federal and provincial taxes. I have no idea how that would compare to somebody in the States. I suspect it's probably higher here and I've really got no complaints about it.

There's also a 5 per cent national sales tax called the GST that applies to most goods and services but I have no idea what I paid out last year on that last year.

do you think you are in the 'majority' of wealthy tax payers when you say you have no complaints?

now do the math on your own income and suppose you pay the US equivelent of a top earner - bump up your income taxes to 39.6% (top tier, before bush tax cuts) and add on roughly 10% sales taxes (figuring most top earners live and work near a major city). Also - don't forget to add in roughly 2% of your homes value for property taxes. What is your disposable income looking like now (obviously I'm not asking you to disclose it but just think about it).... Are you still content to pay these taxes?

I suspect most people are not happy with their tax burden whether they make $30,000 or $300,000 so I'm probably in the minority because I see taxes as part of the cost to pay the services that I enjoy. Given the choice of working in Russia, the Middle East or sub-Saharan Africa, where the tax burden is lower, I'll settle for higher taxes, the rule of law and peace of mind. I don't know anybody in my company that would choose to work in say, Chad (where you'd also get "inconvenience"  bonuses and armed escorts on your way to work) over Australia or Virginia, where the marginal tax rates are much, much higher.

I probably would not be happy if it rose to 39.6 per cent but I'd want to have some of the write-offs available to Americans (such as writing off mortgage interest, etc.) to see what the total effect would be on take-home income. I'd pay more in sales taxes but less in municipal taxes as mine appear to be about four per cent of the assessed value of my home.

I'm not suggested I love taxes. I maximize my payments to a tax-deferral plan (where the money grows tax-free, until it can be withdrawn, presumably after retirement, when your income will be a good deal lower).

I will say the US tax code appears a lot more complex than Canada's. It looks like you've got more brackets and more options in how to file if you are married. It would be interesting to see the net effect of applying Canada's tax code in the USA and whether you'd raise or reduce revenue for the treasury.

"I suspect most people are not happy with their tax burden whether they make $30,000 or $300,000 so I'm probably in the minority because I see taxes as part of the cost to pay the services that I enjoy. Given the choice of working in Russia, the Middle East or sub-Saharan Africa, where the tax burden is lower, I'll settle for higher taxes, the rule of law and peace of mind. I don't know anybody in my company that would choose to work in say, Chad (where you'd also get "inconvenience" bonuses and armed escorts on your way to work) over Australia or Virginia, where the marginal tax rates are much, much higher."


Totally agree.... saftey/peace of mind is worth paying any amount of money for. I don't want to have bodyguards to go to work or to go shopping - nobody would. That said - I don't see how providing Nancy Pelosi with $30 million to research field mice has anything to do with anyone's safety or peace of mind.... or a 'bailout' considering the bill it was guised under. Bottom line - If the government didn't waste so much money I bet you would find a lot more people willing to pay taxes..... and that includes republicans.

No you wouldn't. 

First, people are stupid.  Many believe they don't get anything for their taxes.   Second, virtually everyone wants more disposable income.  Less taxes would accomplish that.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/7/2011 12:18:00 PM (view original):
No you wouldn't. 

First, people are stupid.  Many believe they don't get anything for their taxes.   Second, virtually everyone wants more disposable income.  Less taxes would accomplish that.

Really? They believe they don't get anything, ANYTHING, for their taxes. I doubt that. I would think most people 'that pay taxes' understand that's how municipalities are funded, libraries, the military, roads, schools, etc.... I don't think people are THAT stupid. I do think many tax payers, including myself, feel they are paying too much for too little.

I'm a fan of less taxes - but with the spending that has gone on since 2004ish we can't afford to reel in taxes until we get the spending under control. If that means less government jobs .... great.... a lot of those employees do a shifty job anyways. If it means no money for field mice research, great. You get the picture. If the deficit gets too large we will have riots in the streets just like Greece and France.... and that is something I do not want to see happen.

I agree - government waste is all over and is not one party or the other. Both need to stop ludicris spending and make the necessary and difficult budget cuts to reign in the out-of-control deficit.

Warren Buffett loses more and more credibility every day with me. The man has his own agenda - I guarantee you that. As for closing loopholes... close one loophole and 3 more will open. it can't be done under the current tax structure combined with lobbyists. Thats one reason why I like the fair tax - no loopholes - no lobbying to create loopholes. Its a flat sales tax across ALL industries.... and individuals don't file taxes so no loopholes or tax breaks/shelters there. The fair tax has its flaws but I think it does way more good than harm.... still though - the gov't will have to do its part and reduce wasted spending for any tax reform to be effective.

"I agree - government waste is all over and is not one party or the other. Both need to stop ludicris spending and make the necessary and difficult budget cuts to reign in the out-of-control deficit."

The biggest problem is political expediency will prevent anybody acting on this issue until it reaches a crisis. And when it does, neither side will want to lose credibility with their respective constituencies so there will be plenty of posturing and brinksmanship until America's creditors lower the hammer.

"Warren Buffett loses more and more credibility every day with me. The man has his own agenda - I guarantee you that."

He has a pretty clear agenda -- and a fantastic track record -- of making money for the investors of Berkshire Hathaway. As far as his agenda here goes, I respect him as he appears to be speaking out against his own interest. That's pretty rare these days, either from politicians or anybody else.

"As for closing loopholes... close one loophole and 3 more will open. it can't be done under the current tax structure combined with lobbyists."

Agreed

"Thats one reason why I like the fair tax - no loopholes - no lobbying to create loopholes. Its a flat sales tax across ALL industries.... and individuals don't file taxes so no loopholes or tax breaks/shelters there. The fair tax has its flaws but I think it does way more good than harm.... still though - the gov't will have to do its part and reduce wasted spending for any tax reform to be effective."

The fair tax works far better in principle than an income tax although you might create an underground economy where people exchange goods and services under the table to avoid it. No system is perfect. In ideal world, I'd favour a flat sales tax and a flat income tax (no shelters or exemptions) for people and corporations who make more than 30k a year.

Posted by moy23 on 9/7/2011 12:03:00 PM (view original):
"I suspect most people are not happy with their tax burden whether they make $30,000 or $300,000 so I'm probably in the minority because I see taxes as part of the cost to pay the services that I enjoy. Given the choice of working in Russia, the Middle East or sub-Saharan Africa, where the tax burden is lower, I'll settle for higher taxes, the rule of law and peace of mind. I don't know anybody in my company that would choose to work in say, Chad (where you'd also get "inconvenience" bonuses and armed escorts on your way to work) over Australia or Virginia, where the marginal tax rates are much, much higher."


Totally agree.... saftey/peace of mind is worth paying any amount of money for. I don't want to have bodyguards to go to work or to go shopping - nobody would. That said - I don't see how providing Nancy Pelosi with $30 million to research field mice has anything to do with anyone's safety or peace of mind.... or a 'bailout' considering the bill it was guised under. Bottom line - If the government didn't waste so much money I bet you would find a lot more people willing to pay taxes..... and that includes republicans.

It's hard to take you seriously on this kind of thing when you repeat bullshit like the Pelosi field mice thing, moy. If you're looking for examples of government waste, surely you can find a non-fictional one?

whatever anton. if you can't figure out the context of the statement because of the wasted spending example i guess I don't care if you take me seriously.

So Anton are you saying the money for the Wetlands preservation, including the local mice, was never spent? Or that it didnt come out of the Stimulus? Or that it is so small it didnt matter?

This did happen. I am not sure if it was ever spent.

This is why we cant take the doom and gloom forcasts serious when the Tea Party asks for cuts. They always claim that if we cut the cuts will be for the most important projects. That everything that Government does is crucial.

Government is a fat bloated entity. There are things that we could slice off without society as we know it coming to a halt!

Posted by moy23 on 9/7/2011 2:21:00 PM (view original):
whatever anton. if you can't figure out the context of the statement because of the wasted spending example i guess I don't care if you take me seriously.

My point is, if your opinions are shaped by the 'information' sources who peddle that kind of dishonest idiocy then I think you need to re-examine both your sources and your opinions.

Posted by antonsirius on 9/7/2011 3:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/7/2011 2:21:00 PM (view original):
whatever anton. if you can't figure out the context of the statement because of the wasted spending example i guess I don't care if you take me seriously.

My point is, if your opinions are shaped by the 'information' sources who peddle that kind of dishonest idiocy then I think you need to re-examine both your sources and your opinions.

I'm sorry - Are you the opinion expert? How can I get those credentials?