Posted by slashtc on 1/16/2012 9:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/16/2012 6:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slashtc on 1/16/2012 3:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2012 2:14:00 PM (view original):
It's funny because when I say "Player X went from 48 to 51 to 55 percent", it never gets acknowledged.  And virtually EVERY QB who started when he was young went thru the same process.   Too many incompletions/interceptions.   And virtually EVERY ONE of them improved in S2-S3. 

There's no guarantee that he'll get any better.  But history is on his side.

You sir are the expert at ignoring valid points people make.  I don't think you get the right to complain if/when it happens to you.

The reason people are ignoring you is because of the points you've argued vehemently, only to later confess you don't understand what's being argued or didn't see the play/game in question. You've massacred your own credibility.

LOL.  Nice try.  You must have confessed you don't know what you're talking about.  I did no such thing.  It appears that I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Posted by The Taint on 1/16/2012 10:13:00 PM (view original):
Yes, I know what the read option is.  Denver runs more a Rich Rodriguez style than an Urban Meyer style. 


Working on the college level is one thing, working at the pro level is another.   Like you said, Tebow was a 67 percent passer in college.  The same guy is 46 percent in the pros. Besides his mechanics and accuracy, his decision making needs to seriously improve to be successful.  He takes way too many sacks. 

This team lost 4 out of 5 at the end....after teams got a chance to get a good look at what they were doing  They won a ton of close games to pretty lousy opponents.  They beat one opponent that was over .500 all year.  0-3 against teams over .500, and a brutal schedule next season.  Oakland, KC, San Diego twice, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, cinci, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Baltimore, New England, Atlanta, and Carolina.  He better get a whole lot better, really quickly.

As a Raider fan, I hope they go all in with him, and the read option.

Will that happen with Tebow? I honestly don't know. But I'm not fatalistic - I'm willing to wait and see. Elway was a smart QB who wasn't afraid to make a tough throw, but smart enough to know when not to. And like Tebow, he ran a lot and got sacked a lot (he holds QB records in both categories). I trust that he'll be able to share some beneficial stuff with Tebow.

One thing that struck me in the last couple pages though - looking back now, for as bad as Tebow was this season at times, I rarely if ever heard any announcer, expert or talking head talk about his mechanics or throwing motion. He made a lot of inaccurate passes, but I heard very few people attribute that to his mechanics, which is interesting, because all people talked about pre draft was his throwing motion. This season, it became more about his decisions than his mechanics. And decision making is a lot easier to fix than mechanics at the pro level.

Posted by toddcommish on 1/16/2012 8:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by willgibson on 1/16/2012 5:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/16/2012 3:09:00 PM (view original):
Tebow's development will depend on one big thing....  THE RIGHT TEACHER.

He clearly has the will to improve and the athletic ability to improve.  If he can find a BillWalsh-type guru who understands quarterback mechanics and footwork, he has a chance.  Bill took a similar skill set with Steve Young (albeit with fewer mechanical throwing defects) and made him a HOFer.  Unfortunately for Tebow, Bill is dead.

Elway is the exact WRONG person to teach/mentor Tebow because he is a throwing freak of nature.  As a matter of fact, Steve Young would probably be the best person to play Miyagi to Tebow's LaRusso.

Ah, so he needs the right guru. So if Tebow fails next year, Mikey and JT can add Elway to the very long list they compiled of the people who've failed to properly nurture Tim along with Fox and his conservative nature, receivers who drop passes (real and imagined), the offensive line, the defence, blah, blah, blah.

It's interesting many people assume Tebow can make it because of his work habits. It's as if nobody else in the NFL is willing to work as hard as him to attain their goal. That kind of narrative among fans and the media may explain why Tebow is resented by his fellow pros through no fault of his own. It's all about bigging him up for reasons that might have little to do with football. Anyway Tebow's attitude and lifestyle  will help him but it's going to take more than good study habits and godly morals for him to be an effective NFL quarterback.

It also is interesting to hear about how so many quarterbacks are entitled and unwilling to put in the work that TIm is apparently willing to put in. It says a lot more about the posters than it does about the players when people choose to comment on the sense of entitlement and work ethic of people they've never met. 

Will, have you ever heard of Mark Sanchez?  Jeff George?  Todd Marijuanavich?  Ryan Leaf?  JaMarcus Russell?

There are a shitload of highly touted, heavily hyped quarterback prototypes with cannon arms that don't put in the time to get better.  They rest on their college stats and their college laurels, and think that it will be adequate to win in the NFL.  Those are the guys whose teammates bail on them and end up out of the league before their time.  However, I haven't heard ANYTHING but positive things about Tebow from the Denver players.  Compare his situation to Sanchez, who actually got his team to an AFC Championship.  Apparently, his teammates and coaches don't think he's willing to put in the work to get to the next level, and so they've thrown him under the bus.

It says a lot about your lack of current knowledge about what is actually going on that you're willing to comment about things you clearly have NFI about.

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/16/2012 11:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 1/16/2012 10:13:00 PM (view original):
Yes, I know what the read option is.  Denver runs more a Rich Rodriguez style than an Urban Meyer style. 


Working on the college level is one thing, working at the pro level is another.   Like you said, Tebow was a 67 percent passer in college.  The same guy is 46 percent in the pros. Besides his mechanics and accuracy, his decision making needs to seriously improve to be successful.  He takes way too many sacks. 

This team lost 4 out of 5 at the end....after teams got a chance to get a good look at what they were doing  They won a ton of close games to pretty lousy opponents.  They beat one opponent that was over .500 all year.  0-3 against teams over .500, and a brutal schedule next season.  Oakland, KC, San Diego twice, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, cinci, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Baltimore, New England, Atlanta, and Carolina.  He better get a whole lot better, really quickly.

As a Raider fan, I hope they go all in with him, and the read option.

Tebow does take too many sacks, but even though that's rarely a conscious choice, it's still a better decision than lobbing the ball up to get picked. Again, just generally speaking - I'd rather have a rookie who's too timid than one who's a loose cannon. The loose cannon turns into the Favre, the Cutler, the George, etc. - the gunslinger who refuses to tone it down; who wants to always show he can hit that tiny window or throw it through a defender. I think it's much easier to teach a guy to take more chances than to take less.

Will that happen with Tebow? I honestly don't know. But I'm not fatalistic - I'm willing to wait and see. Elway was a smart QB who wasn't afraid to make a tough throw, but smart enough to know when not to. And like Tebow, he ran a lot and got sacked a lot (he holds QB records in both categories). I trust that he'll be able to share some beneficial stuff with Tebow.

One thing that struck me in the last couple pages though - looking back now, for as bad as Tebow was this season at times, I rarely if ever heard any announcer, expert or talking head talk about his mechanics or throwing motion. He made a lot of inaccurate passes, but I heard very few people attribute that to his mechanics, which is interesting, because all people talked about pre draft was his throwing motion. This season, it became more about his decisions than his mechanics. And decision making is a lot easier to fix than mechanics at the pro level.

Posted by The Taint on 1/16/2012 10:13:00 PM (view original):
Yes, I know what the read option is.  Denver runs more a Rich Rodriguez style than an Urban Meyer style. 


Working on the college level is one thing, working at the pro level is another.   Like you said, Tebow was a 67 percent passer in college.  The same guy is 46 percent in the pros. Besides his mechanics and accuracy, his decision making needs to seriously improve to be successful.  He takes way too many sacks. 

This team lost 4 out of 5 at the end....after teams got a chance to get a good look at what they were doing  They won a ton of close games to pretty lousy opponents.  They beat one opponent that was over .500 all year.  0-3 against teams over .500, and a brutal schedule next season.  Oakland, KC, San Diego twice, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, cinci, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Baltimore, New England, Atlanta, and Carolina.  He better get a whole lot better, really quickly.

As a Raider fan, I hope they go all in with him, and the read option.

You didn't really say why it won't work.    Tebow's inaccuracy aside, let's pretend he can somehow complete 2 more passes per game(by simply hitting the wide open receivers), why won't it work?

Posted by toddcommish on 1/16/2012 8:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by willgibson on 1/16/2012 5:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/16/2012 3:09:00 PM (view original):
Tebow's development will depend on one big thing....  THE RIGHT TEACHER.

He clearly has the will to improve and the athletic ability to improve.  If he can find a BillWalsh-type guru who understands quarterback mechanics and footwork, he has a chance.  Bill took a similar skill set with Steve Young (albeit with fewer mechanical throwing defects) and made him a HOFer.  Unfortunately for Tebow, Bill is dead.

Elway is the exact WRONG person to teach/mentor Tebow because he is a throwing freak of nature.  As a matter of fact, Steve Young would probably be the best person to play Miyagi to Tebow's LaRusso.

Ah, so he needs the right guru. So if Tebow fails next year, Mikey and JT can add Elway to the very long list they compiled of the people who've failed to properly nurture Tim along with Fox and his conservative nature, receivers who drop passes (real and imagined), the offensive line, the defence, blah, blah, blah.

It's interesting many people assume Tebow can make it because of his work habits. It's as if nobody else in the NFL is willing to work as hard as him to attain their goal. That kind of narrative among fans and the media may explain why Tebow is resented by his fellow pros through no fault of his own. It's all about bigging him up for reasons that might have little to do with football. Anyway Tebow's attitude and lifestyle  will help him but it's going to take more than good study habits and godly morals for him to be an effective NFL quarterback.

It also is interesting to hear about how so many quarterbacks are entitled and unwilling to put in the work that TIm is apparently willing to put in. It says a lot more about the posters than it does about the players when people choose to comment on the sense of entitlement and work ethic of people they've never met. 

Will, have you ever heard of Mark Sanchez?  Jeff George?  Todd Marijuanavich?  Ryan Leaf?  JaMarcus Russell?

There are a shitload of highly touted, heavily hyped quarterback prototypes with cannon arms that don't put in the time to get better.  They rest on their college stats and their college laurels, and think that it will be adequate to win in the NFL.  Those are the guys whose teammates bail on them and end up out of the league before their time.  However, I haven't heard ANYTHING but positive things about Tebow from the Denver players.  Compare his situation to Sanchez, who actually got his team to an AFC Championship.  Apparently, his teammates and coaches don't think he's willing to put in the work to get to the next level, and so they've thrown him under the bus.

It says a lot about your lack of current knowledge about what is actually going on that you're willing to comment about things you clearly have NFI about.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/17/2012 8:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/16/2012 8:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by willgibson on 1/16/2012 5:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/16/2012 3:09:00 PM (view original):
Tebow's development will depend on one big thing....  THE RIGHT TEACHER.

He clearly has the will to improve and the athletic ability to improve.  If he can find a BillWalsh-type guru who understands quarterback mechanics and footwork, he has a chance.  Bill took a similar skill set with Steve Young (albeit with fewer mechanical throwing defects) and made him a HOFer.  Unfortunately for Tebow, Bill is dead.

Elway is the exact WRONG person to teach/mentor Tebow because he is a throwing freak of nature.  As a matter of fact, Steve Young would probably be the best person to play Miyagi to Tebow's LaRusso.

Ah, so he needs the right guru. So if Tebow fails next year, Mikey and JT can add Elway to the very long list they compiled of the people who've failed to properly nurture Tim along with Fox and his conservative nature, receivers who drop passes (real and imagined), the offensive line, the defence, blah, blah, blah.

It's interesting many people assume Tebow can make it because of his work habits. It's as if nobody else in the NFL is willing to work as hard as him to attain their goal. That kind of narrative among fans and the media may explain why Tebow is resented by his fellow pros through no fault of his own. It's all about bigging him up for reasons that might have little to do with football. Anyway Tebow's attitude and lifestyle  will help him but it's going to take more than good study habits and godly morals for him to be an effective NFL quarterback.

It also is interesting to hear about how so many quarterbacks are entitled and unwilling to put in the work that TIm is apparently willing to put in. It says a lot more about the posters than it does about the players when people choose to comment on the sense of entitlement and work ethic of people they've never met. 

Will, have you ever heard of Mark Sanchez?  Jeff George?  Todd Marijuanavich?  Ryan Leaf?  JaMarcus Russell?

There are a shitload of highly touted, heavily hyped quarterback prototypes with cannon arms that don't put in the time to get better.  They rest on their college stats and their college laurels, and think that it will be adequate to win in the NFL.  Those are the guys whose teammates bail on them and end up out of the league before their time.  However, I haven't heard ANYTHING but positive things about Tebow from the Denver players.  Compare his situation to Sanchez, who actually got his team to an AFC Championship.  Apparently, his teammates and coaches don't think he's willing to put in the work to get to the next level, and so they've thrown him under the bus.

It says a lot about your lack of current knowledge about what is actually going on that you're willing to comment about things you clearly have NFI about.

BTW, this is why I blocked my buddy willg.  

I mentioned three QB who didn't put in the work:
Vick - has said, repeatedly, that he was last in/first out.  That he relied on his athletic ability.  And, finally, before this season, said he'd never tried to learn how to read a defense before this year.
Leaf - has said, more than once, that he took his career for granted.  That one of his greatest regrets was not putting in the work.
VYoung - admittedly he never confessed to being a slacker.  But Fisher hated the guy and alluded to his lack of effort on several occassions.   Coaches don't bust the balls of the owner's prize possession just because.  I have to believe there is/was something to Fisher's comments.

Of the ones Taint mentioned, Sanchez is getting blasted as lazy by teammates right now.   ESPN is running a piece on Marinovich and he admits he was living the party life as a pro.   Russell would show up at training camp over 300 lbs.   I never heard anything about George's work ethic but it was often said "Million dollar arm, 10 cent head" about him.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/17/2012 6:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 1/16/2012 10:13:00 PM (view original):
Yes, I know what the read option is.  Denver runs more a Rich Rodriguez style than an Urban Meyer style. 


Working on the college level is one thing, working at the pro level is another.   Like you said, Tebow was a 67 percent passer in college.  The same guy is 46 percent in the pros. Besides his mechanics and accuracy, his decision making needs to seriously improve to be successful.  He takes way too many sacks. 

This team lost 4 out of 5 at the end....after teams got a chance to get a good look at what they were doing  They won a ton of close games to pretty lousy opponents.  They beat one opponent that was over .500 all year.  0-3 against teams over .500, and a brutal schedule next season.  Oakland, KC, San Diego twice, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, cinci, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Baltimore, New England, Atlanta, and Carolina.  He better get a whole lot better, really quickly.

As a Raider fan, I hope they go all in with him, and the read option.

You didn't really say why it won't work.    Tebow's inaccuracy aside, let's pretend he can somehow complete 2 more passes per game(by simply hitting the wide open receivers), why won't it work?