Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 3:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by deanod on 12/10/2011 9:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/10/2011 6:47:00 PM (view original):
jesus christ - this memphis thing is tired - they won 46 games last season and made the 2nd round of the playoffs, they  won 22 games in two consecutive seasons with Pau 

so how did they get 46 wins and make the 2nd round of the playoffs? It's DIRECTLY related to the trade: a) Marc Gasol b)Zach Randolph signed with the money cleared from McKie and Kwame expiring contracts

people who dont understand the business end of the game may not get this but that trade was ultimately in Memphis's best interest and that is QEf-ingD so move on

(and PS - go back to the historical threads and look at where I for one stated that there was no way that Powe or Jefferson were going to be in Minnesota long and look at Minnesota now - pps when does Danny go ahead and bonus out McHale for his 'contributions as an executive' to the celtics cause?)

completely standard for a guy 6 months removed from being a mid 2nd round pick and a fat PF who nobody wanted to form an elite PF-C duo, am i right?

again, be more results oriented.

ok dummy

two teams made trades at about the same time 3 seasons ago

last season one of those teams won 46 games and made it into the 2nd round of the play-offs (largely based on assetts acquired in that trade like it or not)

the other won 15 games (and are no longer in possession of the assetts acquired in their trade)

those are "THE RESULTS "

take your own advice and shut up while you're behind

You can't blame the Celtics for Minny's incompetency.  McHale may have had a plan on how to use those assets that Kahn couldn't figure out (the guy did give Darko a contract right?) and you can't credit LA for Memphis figuring out a way to use its resources as well.

Like I said, the better Memphis record of the past two season can't be totally contributed to the trade.  Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo didn't hurt things either.

Posted by malone9975 on 12/11/2011 9:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 2:51:00 AM (view original):
Odom for a #1 next year? what the ****?

I think it was done to trade Gasol and Bynum for Hedo and Dwight.  Lakers had to move Odom's salary too in order to make room for Howard, but if that happens my only question is who is going to pass the ball outside of Hedo.

There is no freakin' way the Lakers should trade Orlando both Gasol and Bynum.  Howard (or anybody else ever, except maybe Wilt) can not be an entire FC by himself.  I know I can't stomach the thought of Hedu being the best option the Lakers have at the 4.  Given that the only competition the Lakers have in trading for Howard is NJ (thanks Dwight), and their best offer is Lopez and 2 mid-first round picks, both should not be needed.  A Howard - Gasol - Hedu FC actually sounds good though.  Not sure where that would leave the Lakers cap-wise, but would still love to see Billups come aboard (with or without a Howard deal).

Posted by all3 on 12/11/2011 10:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 12/11/2011 9:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 2:51:00 AM (view original):
Odom for a #1 next year? what the ****?

I think it was done to trade Gasol and Bynum for Hedo and Dwight.  Lakers had to move Odom's salary too in order to make room for Howard, but if that happens my only question is who is going to pass the ball outside of Hedo.

There is no freakin' way the Lakers should trade Orlando both Gasol and Bynum.  Howard (or anybody else ever, except maybe Wilt) can not be an entire FC by himself.  I know I can't stomach the thought of Hedu being the best option the Lakers have at the 4.  Given that the only competition the Lakers have in trading for Howard is NJ (thanks Dwight), and their best offer is Lopez and 2 mid-first round picks, both should not be needed.  A Howard - Gasol - Hedu FC actually sounds good though.  Not sure where that would leave the Lakers cap-wise, but would still love to see Billups come aboard (with or without a Howard deal).

No one is getting Howard without taking Hedo's bloated deal.

For the life of me I can't understand this love affair with Bynum.  He is always injured and he is a petulant child.  When he plays he is good, but he isn't the second coming of Kareem.  Furthermore Gasol is not going to improve from where he is now and Howard is the best big man in the league period.

Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 3:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by deanod on 12/10/2011 9:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/10/2011 6:47:00 PM (view original):
jesus christ - this memphis thing is tired - they won 46 games last season and made the 2nd round of the playoffs, they  won 22 games in two consecutive seasons with Pau 

so how did they get 46 wins and make the 2nd round of the playoffs? It's DIRECTLY related to the trade: a) Marc Gasol b)Zach Randolph signed with the money cleared from McKie and Kwame expiring contracts

people who dont understand the business end of the game may not get this but that trade was ultimately in Memphis's best interest and that is QEf-ingD so move on

(and PS - go back to the historical threads and look at where I for one stated that there was no way that Powe or Jefferson were going to be in Minnesota long and look at Minnesota now - pps when does Danny go ahead and bonus out McHale for his 'contributions as an executive' to the celtics cause?)

completely standard for a guy 6 months removed from being a mid 2nd round pick and a fat PF who nobody wanted to form an elite PF-C duo, am i right?

again, be more results oriented.

ok dummy

two teams made trades at about the same time 3 seasons ago

last season one of those teams won 46 games and made it into the 2nd round of the play-offs (largely based on assetts acquired in that trade like it or not)

the other won 15 games (and are no longer in possession of the assetts acquired in their trade)

those are "THE RESULTS "

take your own advice and shut up while you're behind

Just catching up on all the NBA chatter and this is f****** awesome.

Just because your "Latin phrase of the day" dictionary had QED a month ago doesn't mean you need to use it in every other post. Especially if you're getting confused by other people's sarcasm.

Posted by malone9975 on 12/11/2011 10:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 12/11/2011 10:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 12/11/2011 9:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 2:51:00 AM (view original):
Odom for a #1 next year? what the ****?

I think it was done to trade Gasol and Bynum for Hedo and Dwight.  Lakers had to move Odom's salary too in order to make room for Howard, but if that happens my only question is who is going to pass the ball outside of Hedo.

There is no freakin' way the Lakers should trade Orlando both Gasol and Bynum.  Howard (or anybody else ever, except maybe Wilt) can not be an entire FC by himself.  I know I can't stomach the thought of Hedu being the best option the Lakers have at the 4.  Given that the only competition the Lakers have in trading for Howard is NJ (thanks Dwight), and their best offer is Lopez and 2 mid-first round picks, both should not be needed.  A Howard - Gasol - Hedu FC actually sounds good though.  Not sure where that would leave the Lakers cap-wise, but would still love to see Billups come aboard (with or without a Howard deal).

No one is getting Howard without taking Hedo's bloated deal.

For the life of me I can't understand this love affair with Bynum.  He is always injured and he is a petulant child.  When he plays he is good, but he isn't the second coming of Kareem.  Furthermore Gasol is not going to improve from where he is now and Howard is the best big man in the league period.

Maybe you should have read the entire post before trying to supply backlash; not only did I never say Hedu wouldn't be coming, but I included him in what (to me) would be a "fair" trade.  Just don't want him at the 4, and certainly not the only option there.  Bynum is (easily) arguably the 2nd best "true" Center in the NBA.  He's entering what would be his 3rd season had he attended college, and I'm pretty sure none of his injuries have been non-contact, so I don't see why so many downplay his abilities and worth.  His all-around game is not as good as Howard's, but there is nowhere near enough gap between the two to also include a 7 foot 18-10-3 perenial All-Star, especially when the best offer the only other "buyer" can offer is nowhere close. 

Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 3:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by deanod on 12/10/2011 9:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/10/2011 6:47:00 PM (view original):
jesus christ - this memphis thing is tired - they won 46 games last season and made the 2nd round of the playoffs, they  won 22 games in two consecutive seasons with Pau 

so how did they get 46 wins and make the 2nd round of the playoffs? It's DIRECTLY related to the trade: a) Marc Gasol b)Zach Randolph signed with the money cleared from McKie and Kwame expiring contracts

people who dont understand the business end of the game may not get this but that trade was ultimately in Memphis's best interest and that is QEf-ingD so move on

(and PS - go back to the historical threads and look at where I for one stated that there was no way that Powe or Jefferson were going to be in Minnesota long and look at Minnesota now - pps when does Danny go ahead and bonus out McHale for his 'contributions as an executive' to the celtics cause?)

completely standard for a guy 6 months removed from being a mid 2nd round pick and a fat PF who nobody wanted to form an elite PF-C duo, am i right?

again, be more results oriented.

ok dummy

two teams made trades at about the same time 3 seasons ago

last season one of those teams won 46 games and made it into the 2nd round of the play-offs (largely based on assetts acquired in that trade like it or not)

the other won 15 games (and are no longer in possession of the assetts acquired in their trade)

those are "THE RESULTS "

take your own advice and shut up while you're behind

If Memphis drafted Russell Westbrook instead of Mayo, traded Conley for a legit SG, and won the championship, does that mean that Memphis would have won the deal?

Things worked out favorably for Memphis AFTER the deal, doesn't mean it wasn't bad at the time.  If I sell you a bunch of Google stock for $500/share when it's trading at $100/share, and then it goes up to $650/share a few years later, you still made a ****** trade.

You probably think it was silly to draft Len Bias #2 overall because he died before ever playing

I'm thinking the LA locker room was pretty toxic.  You can't undo that meltdown from last year.  If you end up with howard and billups, you have succeeded.   and you get Tim Hardaway Jr. next year!

I don't get why they dumped Odom for nothing, if they're going to move Pau and Bynum now, they gotta get something else back.

If they can move Bynum + picks for Howard, that's dynamite.  Bynum + Gasol for Howard + Turkeyglue, they at least need Jameer Nelson back.  I thought Jason Richardson would be a perfect fit next to Kobe at the 3, but it may be too late to S&T him now, not sure if his signing's official.

Gotta think that a Bynum + something for Dwight Howard is at a more advanced stage than is being let on. That's the only reasoning I can understand of dumping Odom.

Posted by all3 on 12/11/2011 10:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 12/11/2011 10:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 12/11/2011 10:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 12/11/2011 9:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 2:51:00 AM (view original):
Odom for a #1 next year? what the ****?

I think it was done to trade Gasol and Bynum for Hedo and Dwight.  Lakers had to move Odom's salary too in order to make room for Howard, but if that happens my only question is who is going to pass the ball outside of Hedo.

There is no freakin' way the Lakers should trade Orlando both Gasol and Bynum.  Howard (or anybody else ever, except maybe Wilt) can not be an entire FC by himself.  I know I can't stomach the thought of Hedu being the best option the Lakers have at the 4.  Given that the only competition the Lakers have in trading for Howard is NJ (thanks Dwight), and their best offer is Lopez and 2 mid-first round picks, both should not be needed.  A Howard - Gasol - Hedu FC actually sounds good though.  Not sure where that would leave the Lakers cap-wise, but would still love to see Billups come aboard (with or without a Howard deal).

No one is getting Howard without taking Hedo's bloated deal.

For the life of me I can't understand this love affair with Bynum.  He is always injured and he is a petulant child.  When he plays he is good, but he isn't the second coming of Kareem.  Furthermore Gasol is not going to improve from where he is now and Howard is the best big man in the league period.

Maybe you should have read the entire post before trying to supply backlash; not only did I never say Hedu wouldn't be coming, but I included him in what (to me) would be a "fair" trade.  Just don't want him at the 4, and certainly not the only option there.  Bynum is (easily) arguably the 2nd best "true" Center in the NBA.  He's entering what would be his 3rd season had he attended college, and I'm pretty sure none of his injuries have been non-contact, so I don't see why so many downplay his abilities and worth.  His all-around game is not as good as Howard's, but there is nowhere near enough gap between the two to also include a 7 foot 18-10-3 perenial All-Star, especially when the best offer the only other "buyer" can offer is nowhere close. 

I could care less about what was said before I just commented about your thought about Gasol and Bynum for Howard and Hedo and my lack of desire to have Bynum ANYWHERE near my team.  Bynum has had multiple injuries already and he all know that this is something that works out very well for 7 footers.  Until he can put together one season of over 2500 minutes and at least 70 games played I will still remain dubious about Bynum's worth.  Right now he is nothing more than a very good backup center until he can actually stay on the court.

I know that the majority if not all injuries will contact related, but his he more physical that Howard or any of the other physical centers that didn't fight the same injury issues that he has had.

So I am not just giving backlash, but a reasonable point of very from a basketball fan outside of LA sphere of influence and fandom that has a beeter than passing knowledge of tlhe league.

If you think Howard is worth both Gasol and Bynum, I'd say your knowledge of the League is about the same as your knowledge of proofreading before you post.

First, what stinenavy said.  Howard is prolly packing as we speak.

Second, the problem is that Howard is worth more than either one, but MAYBE not quite both of them.  But ORL can't accept either an aging Pau or an unproven Bynum by themselves.  So it's basically both or nothing AND it pretty much guarantees Howard for you.  Remember there are other teams out there and time is short.

Further, could LA trade Pau and Bynum separately and get 25/15 @ 60% shooting plus 800 fta's and great defense?  Probably not.  You now attract players willing play for less money like Miami does. 

Apparently the Lakers agree with me, as all reports indicate they've (thankfully) told Orlando to shove the idea of getting both Gasol and Bynum. 

badja - there are NOT other teamS in the running for Howard, there is only the Nets (since Dallas can no longer afford), as that's the only other team Howard has said he'd resign with, and nobody's going to pay the price to get him for a one season rental.  The Lakers' deal just needs to be better than Lopez and two mid-firsts.  Something like Bynum, a pick or two and the exception should get it done, with Walton or Peace added for cap purposes if needed because of Orlando's need to get rid of Hedu..

Posted by all3 on 12/11/2011 3:10:00 PM (view original):
If you think Howard is worth both Gasol and Bynum, I'd say your knowledge of the League is about the same as your knowledge of proofreading before you post.

Ahh yes, questioning proofreading.  The internet forum's version of "I can't fight you on content, so I have to find something to complain about because I can't agree."

Show me, historically, where Gasol a 31 year old center is going to get better or isn't going to fall from his 18/10/3 after 820 games played in his career (counting the playoffs).  Also show me where Bynum is worth anything close to what Laker fans seem to imagine him to be.  A young, and still very immature, center that has been in the league for six years and hasn't played in 160 team games (not counting the games that he was limited in due to nursing an injury or slowly having to work his way back).  That is almost 27 games per season of not playing.  So he misses 32.5% of games for his career.

Dwight Howard is the best defender in the league.  He is one of the best rebounders, and finds a way to get to the rim and the line better than most in the NBA.  He is two years older than Bynum and misses one game per season by average, and if the Lakers have to take back Hedo to do the deal you will get a guy that can rebound and pass some and can knock down the open three....basically an upgraded Robert Horry.  He will not shoot as much as he did in Orlando since we all know Kobe will not allow such things.

Tell me which lineup you like better

Brown/Fisher
Kobe
World Peace
Gasol
Bynum

OR

Brown/Fisher
Kobe
World Peace
Hedo
Howard

The first lineup is a downgrade from last year since Odom is gone.  I would rather have the second lineup and take two top ten guys together and let them wreak havoc then make Kobe have to create everything while Gasol complains because Kobe is shooting too much.  Hedo is not a typical PF, but who says the Lakers can't use the MLE to get a serviceable PF (Chuck Hayes, Kris Humphries, or even take a flyer on a cheap guy like Troy Murphy, Brian Cardinal, or Kenyon Martin), and possibly sign Billups while putting a bullet is Fisher's head.