Gilbert's why were here - We were going to give up a top 3 or 4 big (2nd team All NBA PF) and the sixth man of the year for a PG with a history of knee injuries

a little perspective is needed - this wasnt danny ainge in collusion with mchale cleaning out the safe in minnesota

Posted by gulftide on 12/9/2011 10:30:00 AM (view original):
The kibosh was more against the Lakers than for the Hornets.  Whiny guys like Cuban and Dan "comic sans" Gilbert who doesn't even belong in the league.  CP3 is a nice player but even with him NO hasn't gone anywhere - in fact they are on league welfare if you will.  It's not like they'll be that much worse. 

Look at Derrick Rose who got owned by Bron.  Short PG's are not really what get's you a ring.  You need bigs and LA was about to ship 2 of them out.  Cuban should have been happy to see that after losing Tyson.

These Rockets players were consistent performers in the playoffs without Yao.  The NBA would have received a boost in viewers with a refreshed LA team.  I saw the Rockets as the big losers in the deal, but maybe they have young talent they like and they'd have a bunch of cash.

edit - didn't realize those Rockets were that old Dean.  Kind of changes my view on it now.

While I hate this for my beloved Rockets (even though this will give them flexibility if they can ever get a top free agent) you couldn't be more wrong about the Rockets and the consistent performers in the playoffs stuff.

SO...lets look at the Rockets post-Yao draft

2003 43-39 NO PLAYOFFS 82 Games of Yao
2004 45-37 First Round Exit vs. LA Lakers 82 Games of Yao
2005 51-31 First Round Exit vs. Dallas 80 Games of Yao
2006 34-48 NO PLAYOFFS 57 Games of Yao
2007 52-30 First Round Exit vs. Utah 48 Games of Yao
2008 55-27 First Round Exit vs. Utah 55 Games of Yao
2009 53-29 Second Round Exit vs. LA Lakers 77 Games of Yao
2010 42-40 NO PLAYOFFS 0 Games of Yao
2011 43-39 NO PLAYOFFS 5 Games of Yao

So when Yao plays 70 or more games the Rockets make the playoffs 3 times out of 4 including the only advance out of the first round (and he got injured in that second round matchup and it cost the Rockets the series because the Lakers had NO ANSWER for Yao in that series), and when he is under 70 games the Rockets make the playoffs 2 out of 5 times.

So how were the Rockets consistent playoff performers when he wasn't there.  By consistently not being there, or not making it out of the first round.  That is not the consistency that a team is looking for that was a regular playoff team 5 years before Yao came to town.

Posted by felonius on 12/9/2011 10:19:00 PM (view original):
Gilbert's why were here - We were going to give up a top 3 or 4 big (2nd team All NBA PF) and the sixth man of the year for a PG with a history of knee injuries

a little perspective is needed - this wasnt danny ainge in collusion with mchale cleaning out the safe in minnesota

I love it when Lakers act like the KG deal was collusive when they gave up an elite prospect who turned out to be a slight disappointment, but the Gasol deal was good when they gave up an OK-ish prospect who blew the **** up in Memphis.

Be more results oriented.

Posted by deanod on 12/10/2011 3:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/9/2011 10:19:00 PM (view original):
Gilbert's why were here - We were going to give up a top 3 or 4 big (2nd team All NBA PF) and the sixth man of the year for a PG with a history of knee injuries

a little perspective is needed - this wasnt danny ainge in collusion with mchale cleaning out the safe in minnesota

I love it when Lakers act like the KG deal was collusive when they gave up an elite prospect who turned out to be a slight disappointment, but the Gasol deal was good when they gave up an OK-ish prospect who blew the **** up in Memphis.

Be more results oriented.

To hammer this point home more.  One really good year of KG followed by a bunch of declining seasons should have been a solid trade for Minnesota, but Kahn came in and didn't know how to manage the assets.  Jefferson was given away, McHale dumped Ratliff's expiring deal, and they botched the pick in 2009 to a historic level when they got there own 1st rounder back and drafted two point guards in a row.

The Lakers got a solid PF/C that was coming into his prime for Marc Gasol (who was beyond being an unknown factor) and a pile of dirty laundry (Kwame Brown anyone).  The Lakers use this to win two more rings.  Still WAY more insane at the time than the KG trade.

If someone sells you a BMW for the price of a Hyundai, are you wrong for accepting?  Don't hate the Lakers, hate the Grizz. 

jesus christ - this memphis thing is tired - they won 46 games last season and made the 2nd round of the playoffs, they  won 22 games in two consecutive seasons with Pau 

so how did they get 46 wins and make the 2nd round of the playoffs? It's DIRECTLY related to the trade: a) Marc Gasol b)Zach Randolph signed with the money cleared from McKie and Kwame expiring contracts

people who dont understand the business end of the game may not get this but that trade was ultimately in Memphis's best interest and that is QEf-ingD so move on

(and PS - go back to the historical threads and look at where I for one stated that there was no way that Powe or Jefferson were going to be in Minnesota long and look at Minnesota now - pps when does Danny go ahead and bonus out McHale for his 'contributions as an executive' to the celtics cause?)

Posted by malone9975 on 12/10/2011 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gulftide on 12/9/2011 10:30:00 AM (view original):
The kibosh was more against the Lakers than for the Hornets.  Whiny guys like Cuban and Dan "comic sans" Gilbert who doesn't even belong in the league.  CP3 is a nice player but even with him NO hasn't gone anywhere - in fact they are on league welfare if you will.  It's not like they'll be that much worse. 

Look at Derrick Rose who got owned by Bron.  Short PG's are not really what get's you a ring.  You need bigs and LA was about to ship 2 of them out.  Cuban should have been happy to see that after losing Tyson.

These Rockets players were consistent performers in the playoffs without Yao.  The NBA would have received a boost in viewers with a refreshed LA team.  I saw the Rockets as the big losers in the deal, but maybe they have young talent they like and they'd have a bunch of cash.

edit - didn't realize those Rockets were that old Dean.  Kind of changes my view on it now.

While I hate this for my beloved Rockets (even though this will give them flexibility if they can ever get a top free agent) you couldn't be more wrong about the Rockets and the consistent performers in the playoffs stuff.

SO...lets look at the Rockets post-Yao draft

2003 43-39 NO PLAYOFFS 82 Games of Yao
2004 45-37 First Round Exit vs. LA Lakers 82 Games of Yao
2005 51-31 First Round Exit vs. Dallas 80 Games of Yao
2006 34-48 NO PLAYOFFS 57 Games of Yao
2007 52-30 First Round Exit vs. Utah 48 Games of Yao
2008 55-27 First Round Exit vs. Utah 55 Games of Yao
2009 53-29 Second Round Exit vs. LA Lakers 77 Games of Yao
2010 42-40 NO PLAYOFFS 0 Games of Yao
2011 43-39 NO PLAYOFFS 5 Games of Yao

So when Yao plays 70 or more games the Rockets make the playoffs 3 times out of 4 including the only advance out of the first round (and he got injured in that second round matchup and it cost the Rockets the series because the Lakers had NO ANSWER for Yao in that series), and when he is under 70 games the Rockets make the playoffs 2 out of 5 times.

So how were the Rockets consistent playoff performers when he wasn't there.  By consistently not being there, or not making it out of the first round.  That is not the consistency that a team is looking for that was a regular playoff team 5 years before Yao came to town.

Well i was speaking of playoff games without Yao, not reg season.  Above that, how many of those playoff exits were due to TMac?  I know the 2 Utah series you can basically put those squarely on TMac's terrible play.

After that they scared the crap out of a great Laker team without Yao or Tmac.  Since then, they have had no center at all, so what can we expect?

You mentioned the consistent performance without Yao, and now that has switched to a single seven game series where the Rockets played three games with Yao and four without.

My point is that you can't say the Rockets are better without Yao, and there is certainly nothing to back that up statistically.  While I grant many playoff screwups to T-Mac, they weren't all his fault.  T-Mac and Yao do not make an entire team...especially when you look at the absolute dearth of PG's the Rockets had over that period.

Posted by felonius on 12/10/2011 6:47:00 PM (view original):
jesus christ - this memphis thing is tired - they won 46 games last season and made the 2nd round of the playoffs, they  won 22 games in two consecutive seasons with Pau 

so how did they get 46 wins and make the 2nd round of the playoffs? It's DIRECTLY related to the trade: a) Marc Gasol b)Zach Randolph signed with the money cleared from McKie and Kwame expiring contracts

people who dont understand the business end of the game may not get this but that trade was ultimately in Memphis's best interest and that is QEf-ingD so move on

(and PS - go back to the historical threads and look at where I for one stated that there was no way that Powe or Jefferson were going to be in Minnesota long and look at Minnesota now - pps when does Danny go ahead and bonus out McHale for his 'contributions as an executive' to the celtics cause?)

The Memphis thing is tired, but you Lakers fans love to point out how the Celtics essentially robbed KG from the Celtics (forgetting that KG already said no to going to Boston before he finally said yes due to his no trade clause) and never remember your own history.  Oh and the Grizz won 46 games last year and made the playoffs FOUR YEARS after the trade.

I wonder if the Grizz playoff run had anything to do with guys like Conley, Mayo, Tony Allen, Battier, and Sam Young playing quality minutes?  No but the Celtics absolutely ripped off the Timberwolves.  You can't have it both ways.  We either were presented with a great deal that we chose to take as were the Lakers, or both teams are crooked and ripped off the retarded.  You don't get to say we beat you only because we cheated, and then when you win (by doing the same thing) that you did it because you were superior.

So the only thing more tired that people talking about the Memphis trade is the Lakers ******** about Ainge and McHale conspiracies.  If there was such a conspiracy in place McHale would be working for the Celtics instead of being the head coach of the Rockets.

Posted by felonius on 12/10/2011 6:47:00 PM (view original):
jesus christ - this memphis thing is tired - they won 46 games last season and made the 2nd round of the playoffs, they  won 22 games in two consecutive seasons with Pau 

so how did they get 46 wins and make the 2nd round of the playoffs? It's DIRECTLY related to the trade: a) Marc Gasol b)Zach Randolph signed with the money cleared from McKie and Kwame expiring contracts

people who dont understand the business end of the game may not get this but that trade was ultimately in Memphis's best interest and that is QEf-ingD so move on

(and PS - go back to the historical threads and look at where I for one stated that there was no way that Powe or Jefferson were going to be in Minnesota long and look at Minnesota now - pps when does Danny go ahead and bonus out McHale for his 'contributions as an executive' to the celtics cause?)

completely standard for a guy 6 months removed from being a mid 2nd round pick and a fat PF who nobody wanted to form an elite PF-C duo, am i right?

again, be more results oriented.

gee....Laker fans see the Laker deal as up and up and the C's deal as dirty and vice versa




shocker

well now that the NBA saved lol Demps from his own dumbass, the Lakers gonna get Howard and the Celtics gonna get Paul and we'll have a good ol' fashioned Boston-LA finals.

and of course the Laker fans will probably complain that they shoulda had both

Posted by deanod on 12/10/2011 9:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by felonius on 12/10/2011 6:47:00 PM (view original):
jesus christ - this memphis thing is tired - they won 46 games last season and made the 2nd round of the playoffs, they  won 22 games in two consecutive seasons with Pau 

so how did they get 46 wins and make the 2nd round of the playoffs? It's DIRECTLY related to the trade: a) Marc Gasol b)Zach Randolph signed with the money cleared from McKie and Kwame expiring contracts

people who dont understand the business end of the game may not get this but that trade was ultimately in Memphis's best interest and that is QEf-ingD so move on

(and PS - go back to the historical threads and look at where I for one stated that there was no way that Powe or Jefferson were going to be in Minnesota long and look at Minnesota now - pps when does Danny go ahead and bonus out McHale for his 'contributions as an executive' to the celtics cause?)

completely standard for a guy 6 months removed from being a mid 2nd round pick and a fat PF who nobody wanted to form an elite PF-C duo, am i right?

again, be more results oriented.

ok dummy

two teams made trades at about the same time 3 seasons ago

last season one of those teams won 46 games and made it into the 2nd round of the play-offs (largely based on assetts acquired in that trade like it or not)

the other won 15 games (and are no longer in possession of the assetts acquired in their trade)

those are "THE RESULTS "

take your own advice and shut up while you're behind

Odom for a #1 next year? what the ****?

Posted by felonius on 12/11/2011 2:51:00 AM (view original):
Odom for a #1 next year? what the ****?

I think it was done to trade Gasol and Bynum for Hedo and Dwight.  Lakers had to move Odom's salary too in order to make room for Howard, but if that happens my only question is who is going to pass the ball outside of Hedo.