My defensive SS who can't hit compared to Woods:

Hamlet Beckett	SS	0.484765
Greg Wood	SS	0.354677

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2011 9:55:00 AM (view original):
I was looking at it on more of a percentage and just using my teams as an example.   Nonetheless, SS is the most important and 2B/CF can be debated for #2.  3B/CF could be debated for #4 and followed by LF, RF and 1B.    I think #1 and 6, 7, 8 are clear.

Using your formula against the most recent snapshot on the all-world statistical snapshot page, we get the following:

Pos	Inn	PO	A	E	+	-	Pctg	Weight
SS	17.915333	0.000	6.648	0.391	0.113	0.077	0.403509	4.92
2B	17.915333	0.000	5.606	0.186	0.080	0.058	0.331001	4.03
3B	17.915333	0.000	4.747	0.224	0.113	0.050	0.286570	3.49
CF	17.915333	4.526	0.116	0.115	0.071	0.058	0.272727	3.32
LF	17.915333	3.753	0.094	0.073	0.078	0.056	0.226287	2.76
RF	17.915333	2.750	0.111	0.051	0.053	0.068	0.169296	2.06
1B	17.915333	0.000	1.255	0.033	0.127	0.055	0.082053	1.00

The last column (weight) is the relative number compared to the lowest, i,e, first base.

cool formula, although i don't really understand what story it's supposed to tell.

assists + PO don't mean anything, and to tell the full story you also have to look at the distribution of hitters across the position.

I don't use PO in the infield.  That's largely someone throwing the ball to you.   If a guy makes a great diving catch on a line drive, it wil show up as a + play.    The story it tells, so to speak, is who is fielding the position well and which position is making more isolated plays. 

tec, the only one I'd really dispute is CF/3B(and it's really the only one that's close).    Of course, I lean a little bit more defensively towards CF and care a little less about GB/FB than most(except in Scottsdale). 

nerd.

Yeah, it feels kind of nerdy.   But I draw a line at attempting to figure out how many runs are gained/lost by using Beckett instead of Wood at SS.   But it's also why I didn't freak when I had to use Mercado's 33/37/28/41 instead of Arias' poor range LF-like 44/50/53/64 at 1B for 15 games.

Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2011 11:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2011 9:55:00 AM (view original):
I was looking at it on more of a percentage and just using my teams as an example.   Nonetheless, SS is the most important and 2B/CF can be debated for #2.  3B/CF could be debated for #4 and followed by LF, RF and 1B.    I think #1 and 6, 7, 8 are clear.

Using your formula against the most recent snapshot on the all-world statistical snapshot page, we get the following:

Pos	Inn	PO	A	E	+	-	Pctg	Weight
SS	17.915333	0.000	6.648	0.391	0.113	0.077	0.403509	4.92
2B	17.915333	0.000	5.606	0.186	0.080	0.058	0.331001	4.03
3B	17.915333	0.000	4.747	0.224	0.113	0.050	0.286570	3.49
CF	17.915333	4.526	0.116	0.115	0.071	0.058	0.272727	3.32
LF	17.915333	3.753	0.094	0.073	0.078	0.056	0.226287	2.76
RF	17.915333	2.750	0.111	0.051	0.053	0.068	0.169296	2.06
1B	17.915333	0.000	1.255	0.033	0.127	0.055	0.082053	1.00

The last column (weight) is the relative number compared to the lowest, i,e, first base.

Found an error in my formula, below are the correct numbers.  Relative order is unchanged, though the relative weightings compared to 1B move a little bit:

Pos	Inn	PO	A	E	+	-	Pctg	Weight
SS	17.915333	0.000	6.648	0.391	0.113	0.077	0.351	4.86
2B	17.915333	0.000	5.606	0.186	0.080	0.058	0.304	4.21
3B	17.915333	0.000	4.747	0.224	0.113	0.050	0.256	3.54
CF	17.915333	4.526	0.116	0.115	0.071	0.058	0.253	3.51
LF	17.915333	3.753	0.094	0.073	0.078	0.056	0.212	2.93
RF	17.915333	2.750	0.111	0.051	0.053	0.068	0.156	2.16
1B	17.915333	0.000	1.255	0.033	0.127	0.055	0.072	1.00

Yeah, that moves CF/3B closer.    The reason I value CF more is because a negative play in CF often results in extra bases while a posiive play may take a double off the board.   That .003 makes it seem worthwhile.

Seems like the best way to answer to the OP's question is to note how each player type performs at all 7 positions. How many +/- plays and errors does a SS make while playing 1B? and how many +/- plays and errors does a 1B make while playing SS? etc...

Interesting way to work it.    My 8 season utility guy(not quite a SS but good enough to fill in):  Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Jimmie Blanco

His numbers(7+ seasons)

				inn	po	A	e		Plus	neg			Total
Career	SS	237	190	1642	330	592	32	118	1	6	0.966	5.05	0.337961
Career	2B	372	291	2664	589	868	26	228	44	0	0.982	4.92	0.332583
Career	LF	34	28	249	65	1	0	0	4	0	1	2.39	0.281124
Career	3B	329	253	2340	240	617	10	55	30	1	0.988	3.3	0.271772
Career	CF	72	60	519.1	135	3	0	0	1	1	1	2.39	0.265845
Career	RF	42	35	302.2	44	2	0	0	3	0	1	1.37	0.162144
Career	1B	3	0	9	9	1	0	2	0	0	1	10	0.111111

you guys do realize that hitting is like an enormous part of what he's asking, right?

Posted by boogerlips on 12/6/2011 12:16:00 PM (view original):
Seems like the best way to answer to the OP's question is to note how each player type performs at all 7 positions. How many +/- plays and errors does a SS make while playing 1B? and how many +/- plays and errors does a 1B make while playing SS? etc...

I don't agree, because one would never play a 1B at SS.  Its not that Prince Fielder has no valuable because he plays first instead of SS as a -150 125 error season from him at SS might indicate, he would just have a larger value if he did play SS.  If we could field a team and put everyone at SS at the same time this method would be the correct one, but we can't.  As Mike has alluded to, part of the reason a SS has more value than a LF is that more balls are hit to him.  The same guy at both spots assuming he is a great defender is more valuable at SS because of the greater number of balls hit to him.

Posted by deanod on 12/6/2011 12:46:00 PM (view original):
you guys do realize that hitting is like an enormous part of what he's asking, right?

Not really.  I am looking at what value does being a good enough to play SS have over only being good enough to play CF or 2b or whatever.  I plan on using whatever I come up with to help me draft better, trade better, etc. Obviously this ignores team needs, but I am trying to come up with a rule of thumb.

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far.  Every single post has given me something to think about and I really appreciate it.

Posted by deanod on 12/6/2011 12:46:00 PM (view original):
you guys do realize that hitting is like an enormous part of what he's asking, right?

I'm not really answering his question.  As I said, I don't try to put "runs prevented" on the board.  I just try to find out who's more valuable, by my standards, at each position.    Pitching staffs and competition changes from year to year.   I just want to know who's a better fit where from season to season.   I already know who my better hitters are.