Planned Update - Later this Year Topic

Hurry up offense. shorten the time between rushing plays and completed passes, Currently I don't think the writer has even accounted for 1st downs that the clock stops to reset, he may of but in the hurry up 1st down clock stops would have to be taken into account.  99% of coaches would implement a 2 minute drill for when were losing late in the 4th and winning or losing late in the 2ndQ. And prevent the Def from making Substitutions or make it where the Def may sub but run the risk of getting a 12 men of the field penalty.
you could even write up something so that smart QB's can look to exploit mismatches. Like a LB manned up on a speedy WR 
of course there has to be some risk with the hurry up.  Younger receivers wont run the right route every time, FormIQ,GPA,and GI should decide the factors of when this occurs, and like wise this should account for less completed passes resulting in high probability for more INT's 

rush play up the middle  (no 1st down) 8 sec    run off the play clock
rush play left or right  (no 1st down)      10 sec
rec over the midd;e (no1st down)          10 sec
rec near side lines  no 1st down            12 sec
any 1st down with a under 10 yard play 5 sec
any 1st down with a 10-20 yard play      8 sec
any 1st down 20+ yard play                     10 sec
just an idea for the hurry up offense 

2/4/2012 6:22 PM
Norbert wrote:(1/26/2012)
Just to stay on topic, the parts of the game that will work on for this update are just the game plans and the engine, including play simulation and play by play improvements.  Recruiting and player development will be the focus of a different update.  I know they sort of go together, but the engine is the base for the entire game, so we'd like to fully concentrate on that.  Not to say that some things might not be affected, like Formation IQ, but I don't want to start spreading the focus out to the rest of the game just yet.

To focus on the projected update development, I will refrain from comments regarding further changes to player attributes and development. I wouild just like to remind Norbert that many posts have regarded changes to how players are described and how potential modifications to player ability could potentially impact how those players affect play inside the engine. I urge him to take to mind how these future player attribute changes which the community desires will be implemented into his upcoming update. I would not want him to have to rewrite the engine again to incorporate player aspect changes.

Many of the postings have been towards game planning, formations and depth charts. This will probably take more time than the actual tinkering with the engine. I have many misgivings about the current engine as it is set up, but feel it is working well as for its mechanics, given that game planning changes could fix how the engine is directed. Changes that need to be incorporated for this engine, USING THE CURRENT PLAYER ATTRIBUTE VALUES, would be:

1) Specific details and analysis included in the play by play which would describe all aspects of a play to help coaches understand strengths and weaknesses of their players and game plan. This may be to the specificity of "DT Bob Smith overpowers OL Rick Jones and is blocked by FB Mike Thomas in the backfield filling the hole. DE Tim Brown rushes by OL Jon Weeks, but is too slow for the tackle forcing RB Speedy Harris to the outside. OLB Ron White is in position, but is too slow to close and misses the tackle, but forces RB Speedy Harris inside. ILB Ted Downs is able to move down the line and tackles RB Speedy Harris for a 2 yard gain off tackle."

2) Player attributes are absolute for purposes of comparison and subsequent game engine decisions, subject only to modifications that are identifiable by coaches. The only current in game modifications altering a player and therefor a team's performance are: fatigue and injury. Other modifiers such as attribute modifiers, formation IQ and health are not altered during game play and are available for comparison prior to setting game plans and depth charts. If these two are the only numerical alterations noted during in game simulation, then a greater number should always overcome a lesser number. Combinations of attributes (EX: STR + BLK for OL would follow the same greater over lesser rule. I personally feel that, as hard as it is to get the best possible combinations - the game should give us the formulas for what attributes are added/divided/multiplied or subtracted to give the result. There is not a good reason to hide that information from the coaches other than that the developer wants to keep it some secret and mysterious puzzle to be figured out. Give us the perfect combination of unbeatable football attributes for each position over its opposing position (OL-run vs DL-run stop,OL-pass vs DL pass rush, QB/WR-deep pass vs DB - deep cover, etc) for each type of situation - let's see if we can get them. This would also help understand the expanded PBP, so for above I would know what attributes caused DE Tim Brown to rush by OL Jon Weeks, and why Jon Weeks couldn't stop him.

3) In game decision points for standard play determination would then be minimized as player vs player would be straight-forward high>low progression. Decision points would occur randomly in the above example for the situations where player vs player comparisons are not needed. Above these would be:"DT Bob Smith overpowers OL Rick Jones and is blocked by FB Mike Thomas in the backfield filling the hole. DE Tim Brown rushes by OL Jon Weeks but is too slow for the tackle forcing RB Speedy Harris to the outside. OLB Ron White is in position, but is too slow to close and misses the tackle, but forces RB Speedy Harris inside. ILB Ted Downs is able to move down the line and tackles RB Speedy Harris for a 2 yard gain off tackle."  In the three bolded examples, the simulation would make a random decision - did the fullback's block fill the hole forcing him out or open the hole for the RB to move through?, was the DE action going to force the RB inside for the ILB or outside for the OLB?, was the OLB action going to force the RB inside for the ILB or outside for the CB/S? Ultimately, the ILB strength and GI negated the speedy RB's strength and GI causing a tackle. Should the decision points have been opposite the outcome would have been different - but the player vs player mis-matches remain accurate.

4) For game decision points regarding irregular occurances such as turnovers, penalties, and injuries; the engine should be skewed to acknowledge those players with high and low values in certain attributes and for the differences in those attributes in player vs player match-ups. Currently, as has been presented in past forums and developer chats, there are many attributes which can determine a turnover. These are low attribute values for things as durability, stamina, hands, GI, tech and combinations with relation to mis-matches for strength, formation IQ, elusiveness etc. Some diligence should be directed toward the simulation so that ONLY players who have low values (bottom 20% of an individual attribute for each divisions player population) or mismatch values of greater than 20% for a player vs player match-up would even generate the possibility of a penalty or turnover event. This may need to be revised during beta testing, but I would start low and work up. Also, significantly reduce scores off turnovers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a fumble or an interception where the player ending up with the ball is down on the field, the ball cannot be advanced. This would cut down on the number of turnover TD's. Also, would need to add occurances which never happen in GD - fumbled snaps, muffed punts and KO returns, defensive fumbles. (any others?)

There's probably more, but I'll stop now. Thank you. Enjoy the Super Bowl!




2/4/2012 8:41 PM
I don't want to read a book when looking at the game.Be careful to not over do the details.
2/6/2012 7:20 AM
Posted by jlg1983 on 2/4/2012 6:22:00 PM (view original):
Hurry up offense. shorten the time between rushing plays and completed passes, Currently I don't think the writer has even accounted for 1st downs that the clock stops to reset, he may of but in the hurry up 1st down clock stops would have to be taken into account.  99% of coaches would implement a 2 minute drill for when were losing late in the 4th and winning or losing late in the 2ndQ. And prevent the Def from making Substitutions or make it where the Def may sub but run the risk of getting a 12 men of the field penalty.
you could even write up something so that smart QB's can look to exploit mismatches. Like a LB manned up on a speedy WR 
of course there has to be some risk with the hurry up.  Younger receivers wont run the right route every time, FormIQ,GPA,and GI should decide the factors of when this occurs, and like wise this should account for less completed passes resulting in high probability for more INT's 

rush play up the middle  (no 1st down) 8 sec    run off the play clock
rush play left or right  (no 1st down)      10 sec
rec over the midd;e (no1st down)          10 sec
rec near side lines  no 1st down            12 sec
any 1st down with a under 10 yard play 5 sec
any 1st down with a 10-20 yard play      8 sec
any 1st down 20+ yard play                     10 sec
just an idea for the hurry up offense 

We need a kill clock and a hurry up option. Lots of times I don't want my team calling time outs inside our 35 with 3 minutes left and we have the lead.
2/6/2012 7:22 AM
1) Specific details and analysis included in the play by play which would describe all aspects of a play to help coaches understand strengths and weaknesses of their players and game plan. This may be to the specificity of "DT Bob Smith overpowers OL Rick Jones and is blocked by FB Mike Thomas in the backfield filling the hole. DE Tim Brown rushes by OL Jon Weeks, but is too slow for the tackle forcing RB Speedy Harris to the outside. OLB Ron White is in position, but is too slow to close and misses the tackle, but forces RB Speedy Harris inside. ILB Ted Downs is able to move down the line and tackles RB Speedy Harris for a 2 yard gain off tackle."

Maybe offer the option of basic  Play by Play as it is now, or expanded Play by Play like above for people who want to analyze the game.

2/6/2012 11:23 AM
What about adding a player compare feature like the one for recruits?
2/6/2012 2:07 PM
I would love to see the ability to favor throwing to a particular person more than another (ie a stud TE over an average WR like the san fran 49ers). Defensively, I would like to see the ability to double team a WR
2/6/2012 5:48 PM
We had first look second look etc for WR or TE as a % setting in the last engine but it was taken away jc51186.  I would like to see it come back.
2/6/2012 6:32 PM
Something like this would be awesome, it works great!

playmaker.us/doc/mac/User%20Guide%20Files/html/artificial_intelligence.html
2/7/2012 1:09 AM
ron, that would be something for the really serious players, but it looks a bit time consuming for the casual user, which most of us playing GD are.  I like the game and would like to see a few improvements--but just keep it simple and fun.
2/7/2012 7:14 AM
as much as everybody likes having all 3 of their timeouts remaining when trailing in the last 2 minutes (myself included)...its not at all realistic that this is the case in every single game. how about the "random" (insert joke here) use of timeouts throughout the game being tied to formation iq, game instict, gpa (or a combination of such)? and i dont want it to go to the other extreme where a majority of the time teams have no timeouts remaining at the end of games...but i believe a team having the potential to spend a timeout or 2 early in a half would add a little more realism and also contribute a tiny bit more to the need to put minutes into formation iq
2/7/2012 4:25 PM
Posted by glaity on 1/25/2012 1:06:00 PM (view original):
separate offensive and defensive gameplans -- rather than 1 integrated gameplan
being able to tweek a game plan at half time by changing a defense that isn't working and leave the offense plan in place would be great. Being a newb. I would find it easier to come up with say 3 particular offense and defense plans giving me 9 possible combos.  Also the Idea of specific depth charts for each formation would give us a little more control without taking out the random (human) part of the game.  That factor is what makes sims like this exciting. When going thru the play by play of a game cheering when you see a fr. player with only 11% playing time make a game breaking play or vow to cut a sr. player who throws 7-8 ints. in a game when he is ranked no. 1 or 2 in his conference. 
2/8/2012 4:58 PM
Posted by champ83 on 1/27/2012 11:23:00 AM (view original):
I like the concept of being a passing team and switch to run if pass isn't working (i.e. defense is playing Pass defense), and vice versa.

I would like to see consideration of additional changes as follows:

1. set defense coverage in Man-to-man (either aggressive press coverage, or conservative off line of scrimmae; CBs are key defenders), or zone coverage (CBs, S, LBs all factor in coverage)

2. set defense blitz level/type (basic blitz = 1 blitzer, multiple blitz = 2 blitzers, max blitz = 3 blitzers, also have a zone blitz)

2a. set offensive blitz protection to either basic (no extra protection), moderate (TE/RB chip blocks, they go out for pass if not a heavy blitz), or max protection (TE/RB stay in to block and don't go out for pass)

3. set defense line style to 1-gap (Defense needs better DL than LBs... DTs try to make plays, LBs have to fend of blocks) or 2-gap (Defense needs better LBs than DL... DTs occupy OL and don't make plays but LBs have free run and make the plays), you can recruit DL/LB to fit your style

4. set O-line blocking to Zone blocking (OL requires BLK, GI, and Tech) or Man-to-man blocking (OL require BLK and Str), you can recruit OL to fit your style

5. Offense can call individual plays, by setting a percentage of times they can each be used.  Maybe have an inventory of 10 to 15 basic offensive plays. (For example, if there were 10 plays, a SIM team might set all of them to 10% each and run them equally).  Called pass plays would determine the primary receiver, if he is covered and QB decides not to throw, it's as if current system is in place and QB makes another pass or scramble. Play-by-play results would need to identify play that was called (ex: "QB incomplete pass to WR on skinny post", "RB rushes for 4 yards on draw"), so defense could scout as if watching the plays on film.

Example of play inventory would be:
Passes
RB screen (more effective if defense is rushing the passer),
Bubble screen to WR (more effective when the defense playing off line of scrimmage or CB is poor tackler),
Crossing pattern (more effective when DB/LB doesn't have GI to pick up in zone or DB doesn't have Speed to follow WR in man-to-man),
Deep vertical "go" routes (more effective when WR has speed and/or DB doesn't),
Stop-and-go, Sluggos/slant-and-go, Out-and-up (WR needs Tech and Speed),
Out/sideline patterns,can be deep or short (WR needs Tech to get feet in bounds, these also stop clock in hurry-up mode),
Post/skinny post patterns (up to Safety to make play on WR),
Curl routes/come-back/slant routes for possession receivers with little Speed/Elus but good hands,
Runs
Draw to RB (more effective if defense is rushing the passer),
Zone read runs (either QB/RB carries, depending if Aggr run defense and DE charges then QB keeps, if Consv defense and thus DE slow plays then the QB hands off to RB),
Basic RB inside runs (DTs and MLB defend) and outside runs (DE and OLB defend).
QB draw (effective with running QB and/or blitzing defense)
QB roll-outs (pass or run depending on GI and play available)

SO AWESOME.... LOVE #5.  This would make me so excited for GD every day.
2/9/2012 10:53 AM
Posted by norbert on 1/30/2012 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Just to comment on the formation specific depth charts...a lot of this depends on how we handle setting up the plays.  If we look at setting up playbooks as building a bunch of plays that you can pull from, then I'm sort of leaning to have basic depth charts as they are now and then advanced depth charts based on special position needs.  For instance, you could set a Blocking TE depth chart and then when building the play, you could set it to use the Blocking TE.  This would require being able to define a set of special depth charts for each position and allowing the plays to be built as such.

What we do with the engine will drive what we can do with the game plans.  I need to change the way it simulates the plays before I could make some of these changes, so I'll know more once I start changing the engine.  The game plan ideas will be what drives the engine changes, so they both need to be worked on about the same time.  It's tough to do one without the other.

If you were creating a bunch of plays that your team could run in a game, what sort of info would you like to set?  How much level of control would you like on each player?  Keep in mind that the plays have to be generic enough and flexible enough to encompass the entire game.  I would say we'd want to see more like a dozen plays in the playbook versus a hundred.  Can you think of ways to define situations in which you would want to use each play?  For instance, maybe you set up a play that is passing but you don't want to use it in short yardage situations, or maybe there's a way to modify the play call for short yardage situations.  Throw out any ideas along these lines and maybe something will come together.

Also, if anyone has real life experience with putting together playbooks for real teams, please contact me through customer support, and I really mean real experience.
couldn't you have a generic list of plays (i.e. HB sweep, HB OFF tackle, HB inside, HB screen, wr screen, wr slants, wr posts, goal line rush, goal line pass etc.), maybe 12-20 in total and then you designate the percentage of each play you want to use in the game, as someone else explained in an earlier post.  And have each generic play represent similar more specific plays in the sim engine?  Then with specific formation settings or protection settings you can designate that your TE or RB might stay back and block rather than run their designated route in the generic play description.  Then in the game you can see the offensive and defensive plays run.  This would make defensive and offensive game planning more realistic and more fun. 
2/9/2012 11:14 AM
Posted by iamthetwo__2 on 2/7/2012 7:14:00 AM (view original):
ron, that would be something for the really serious players, but it looks a bit time consuming for the casual user, which most of us playing GD are.  I like the game and would like to see a few improvements--but just keep it simple and fun.
It doesn't need to be complicated, you could have a "batch" option to set multiple plays at once and of course a default setting based on your base offense/defense...
2/9/2012 12:31 PM
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