Throw the Bum Out - Hall of Fame Edition Topic

jrd_x
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2012 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 2/19/2012 4:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2012 4:38:00 PM (view original):
This tells me what I need to know about you and baseball knowledge:   "Or Carlton?  The guy pitched over 5000 innings and is 4th all time in strikeouts."

Yay longevity!!!!
You are a ******* moron.
BUT HE PITCHED OVER 5000 INNINGS!!!!

Dumbass.
And guess who didn't pitch over 5000 innings?  Hunter.  And every other pitcher in the history of baseball except Carlton and 12 others.
2/19/2012 4:56 PM
MikeT23
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Here's one thing I know.

Batters got more hits per 9 against Carlton than Hunter.
Batters walked more often per than against Carlton than Hunter.

Seems like Carlton did a better job at keeping the ball in the park but wasn't quite as adept at giving up less hits/walks.  IOW, when a batter got a good piece of Hunter's pitches, it went a long way.    They just didn't hit they ball as well, as frequently, against Hunter.   And Carlton didn't quite control the strike zone.

2/19/2012 4:57 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by jrd_x on 2/19/2012 4:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2012 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 2/19/2012 4:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2012 4:38:00 PM (view original):
This tells me what I need to know about you and baseball knowledge:   "Or Carlton?  The guy pitched over 5000 innings and is 4th all time in strikeouts."

Yay longevity!!!!
You are a ******* moron.
BUT HE PITCHED OVER 5000 INNINGS!!!!

Dumbass.
And guess who didn't pitch over 5000 innings?  Hunter.  And every other pitcher in the history of baseball except Carlton and 12 others.

So 5000 innings is an auto-induction?


YAY LONGEVITY!!!!

2/19/2012 4:59 PM
jrd_x
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Pitching 5000 innings at a high level takes an exceptionally rare talent.

I'm still waiting for you to show that Hunter was better than Carlton.
2/19/2012 5:01 PM
MikeT23
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I've already shown done that.

I'm waiting for you to admit that they are the same pitcher with the exception of longevity.

2/19/2012 5:03 PM
jrd_x
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Really where?  Quote it because I never saw a single post from you with any sort of evidence that Hunter was better.

1. The longevity matters.  A pitcher that throws 5000 innings is more valuable than the pitcher that throws 3000, given the same ERA.

2. Shorten Carlton's career to the same innings pitched as Hunter and his ERA is 3.04.  That's significantly better than Hunter's 3.26.  

EDIT:  I see that you edited your double post above with WHIP as your ONLY evidence that Hunter was better.  That's not much of an argument.  

2/19/2012 5:13 PM (edited)
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2012 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Over 15+ years?  You're playing the "defense and luck" card on careers that long?

Let's be serious for a minute.
Did you intentionally ignore this?

Was that because you realized throwing "defense and luck" into 15 seasons worth of data is just a bit stupid?   Or because you recognized that I could just say "Every pitcher in the history of MLB could have just been lucky"?
2/19/2012 5:23 PM
tecwrg
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I thought that using ERA as a barometer for pitching went out of vogue around 25 years ago.

What next . . . a discussion about batting average?
2/19/2012 5:25 PM
MikeT23
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BOBBY MATTHEWS FOR THE HOF!!!   4956 INNINGS PITCHED AND A WHIP BETTER THAN CARLTON'S!!!!!!!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mathebo01.shtml
2/19/2012 5:28 PM
MikeT23
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AND A BETTER ERA!!!!!

2/19/2012 5:28 PM
jrd_x
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Posted by jrd_x on 2/19/2012 4:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2012 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Over 15+ years?  You're playing the "defense and luck" card on careers that long?

Let's be serious for a minute.
Not necessarily.  It's just that pitchers have almost no control over what happens to a ball in play.  It's better to evaluate them based on things they can control.
Hey retard, I responded to it.
2/19/2012 5:47 PM
jrd_x
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2012 5:28:00 PM (view original):
BOBBY MATTHEWS FOR THE HOF!!!   4956 INNINGS PITCHED AND A WHIP BETTER THAN CARLTON'S!!!!!!!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mathebo01.shtml
He was pre-1900.  I have no idea if he belongs but his adjusted ERA plus is 104, so by that measure, he wasn't even as good as Hunter.  Not a strong case.
2/19/2012 5:50 PM
jrd_x
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Are you intentionally ignoring these?
1. The longevity matters.  A pitcher that throws 5000 innings is more valuable than the pitcher that throws 3000, given the same ERA.

 
2. Shorten Carlton's career to the same innings pitched as Hunter and his ERA is 3.04.  That's significantly better than Hunter's 3.26.  
2/19/2012 5:51 PM
jrd_x
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Posted by tecwrg on 2/19/2012 5:25:00 PM (view original):
I thought that using ERA as a barometer for pitching went out of vogue around 25 years ago.

What next . . . a discussion about batting average?
FIP is much better but Mike doesn't understand it so he doesn't want to use it.  What say you tec?  You think Hunter was better than Carlton?
2/19/2012 5:53 PM
MikeT23
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I guess, if you consider 84 runs over 15 seasons to be "significant", you have a point. 

But, for the record, that's less than 6 runs a year.

2/19/2012 5:55 PM
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