Posted by toddcommish on 3/1/2012 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Not sure if someone else posted this, but this article from FanGraphs has some fascinating characters in it.  What I noticed is that the guys who like FIP really really really like it, and will basically fight anyone who refutes any part of it.  It's almost a religious thing, where they won't listen to logic (in this case, some guy named "Rational-something") and immmediately flame on anyone who doesn't agree with them.

They absolutely REFUSE to believe that a pitcher has some control over a batted ball, and that guys like Maddux, Glavine, Rivera, and the awesome Matt Cain might be able to get the hitter to miss the sweet spot in key situations and consistently outperform their FIP by controlling their BABIP through command.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a-random-walk-with-fip/

If I had to guess, jrd probably orders his kool-aid from this site.
 

Nothing has been decided. FIP has its issues. But the debate going on there isn't FIP vs WHIP (or ERA or OAV or even ERA+), it's between FIP and stats like tRA that use MLB's batted ball data to try to separate a pitcher's performance from the defense.

Posted by tecwrg on 3/1/2012 3:23:00 PM (view original):


"We're gonna need a bigger thread"

I lol'ed........HARD!!!

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/29/2012 2:12:00 PM (view original):
NO!!!  FIP IS A ******* RETARDED STAT!!!!

USELESS AS **** ON A HOG!!!!


Hope that helps.

This is what was decided about FIP.

For YOU...no, it doesn't.

Mike, you're wrong.  FIP isn't a retarded stat.  Jrd is using it in a retarded manner.

Encouraging that the Carlton v. Hunter slap fight be restricted to this thread.

Anyways, clearly Hunter and Carlton were indistinguishable during the 70's.

Carlton was without a doubt a much better pitcher than Hunter.

Mussina was better than Hunter.

Dave Steib was probably better than Hunter.

Hunter is among the least deserving pitchers ever elected to the Hall.

Mussina was better than Hunter? I was a huge Moose fan but this is just stupid. Do you really expect to have any credibility whatsoever with statements like that?

Maybe Moose had a better FIP than Catfish.  And we all know how all-important FIP is in measuring the quality of ML pitching.

Posted by Jtpsops on 3/15/2012 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Mussina was better than Hunter? I was a huge Moose fan but this is just stupid. Do you really expect to have any credibility whatsoever with statements like that?

Mussina's ERA is higher but they played in much different run scoring environments.  If you use a stat that adjusts for when they played, Mussina dominates Hunter.

Posted by tecwrg on 3/15/2012 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Maybe Moose had a better FIP than Catfish.  And we all know how all-important FIP is in measuring the quality of ML pitching.

Everyone knows a Moose can eat a Catfish.  So Mussina is also better than Mark "The Bird" Fidrych and "Goose" Gossage .  And Walter "Big Train" Johnson and The Ryan Express can run over all of them, except of course, "The Rocket".

Since we all get to pick our random historical stats, I've decided that nicknames will be my FiP equivalent.

Let's not forget that the immortal Dave Steib was also better than Catfish Hunter!

Wow.  Thread sits idle for 8 days, tec makes an obvious poke attempt and jrdx responds in 23 minutes.

I wonder if he's been hitting refresh every half hour for the last week or if he rigged up some alarm that went off when this thread was re-activated?