Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

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Posted by tecwrg on 7/3/2014 12:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 7/3/2014 12:19:00 PM (view original):
For now, but they are already coming out of the woodwork.  There is now a precedent set where people can use religious beliefs for benefit packages as employers.  The envelope is going to be pushed, it already has:




The day after the Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby ruling, a group of religious leaders sent a letter to President Barack Obama asking that he exempt them from a forthcoming executive order that would prohibit federal contractors from discriminating against LGBT people.

The letter, first reported by The Atlantic, was sent on Tuesday by 14 representatives, including the president of Gordon College, an Erie County, Pa., executive and the national faith vote director for Obama for America 2012, of the faith community.

"Without a robust religious exemption," they wrote, "this expansion of hiring rights will come at an unreasonable cost to the common good, national unity and religious freedom."

The leaders noted that the Senate-passed Employment Non-Discrimination Act included a religious exemption:

 

Our concern about an executive order without a religious exemption is about more than the direct financial impact on religious organizations. While the nation has undergone incredible social and legal change over the last decade, we still live in a nation with different beliefs about sexuality. We must find a way to respect diversity of opinion on this issue in a way that respects the dignity of all parties to the best of our ability. There is no perfect solution that will make all parties completely happy.

 

The White House announced in June that Obama would issue an executive order forbidding contractors that receive federal funding from discriminating based on sexual orientation or gender equality after the House had stymied ENDA. The White House declined to comment to The Atlantic on the Tuesday letter and did not immediately respond to TPM's request for comment.

The letter didn't mention the Hobby Lobby decision directly. But one of the signees, Michael Wear, the Obama 2012 veteran, told The Atlantic that the court decision meant the administration would need to address such concerns.

"The administration does have a decision to make whether they want to recalibrate their approach to some of these issues," he said.

Dictatorship by executive order.

Awesome.
The executive branch regulates federal contractors. It's not dictatorship. Nice try, though.
7/3/2014 12:36 PM (edited)
Posted by bad_luck on 7/3/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 7/3/2014 11:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/3/2014 11:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 7/3/2014 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/2/2014 10:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/2/2014 6:54:00 PM (view original):

A third of voters think Barack Obama is the worst president since World War II, according to a Quinnipiac University poll.     George W. Bush came in second, with 28 percent naming him as the worst recent president, followed by Richard Nixon with 13 percent.

http://gawker.com/breaking-if-you-conduct-a-poll-made-up-of-73-percent-w-1599205371

"BREAKING: If you conduct a poll made up of 73 percent whites, 61 percent Midwesterners and Southerners, 66 percent non-college grads, 69 percent non-Democrats and 56 percent land-line users, you can get a Politico headline proclaiming Obama the worst president since World War II"
How about the pew polls showing Americans no longer believe america is #1 and the sharp decline in that belief since 2011? Or the Gallup polls showing Americans by in large are less satisfied with their freedoms than they were 7 years ago?

Nvm... I'm sure they have no merit either.
They might. I agree that we have less freedom, just look at the Hobby Lobby decision.
What was wrong with the Hobby Lobby decision?
In my opinion, plenty.

Even if we accept the premise that a corporation is a person, the entire point of forming a corporation is to create legal separation of the shareholders from the entity. The entity doesn't have religion because the entity is a fictional "person."

Beyond that, even if we accept that the entity could have religious rights, I don't think those rights are violated by someone else taking a prescription. The company has no more right to dictate how employees use benefits than it does to dictate how employees use their salaries.

In my opinion, the employees are the one's whose rights are infringed upon when their employer decides what prescription can and cannot be covered by health insurance.
So, in your opinion, anytime a person or group of people decide to form a business, they have to forfeit any personal beliefs they have in running that business?

What incentive does that give those people to go into business at all?
7/3/2014 12:38 PM
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Posted by tecwrg on 7/3/2014 12:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/3/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 7/3/2014 11:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/3/2014 11:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 7/3/2014 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/2/2014 10:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/2/2014 6:54:00 PM (view original):

A third of voters think Barack Obama is the worst president since World War II, according to a Quinnipiac University poll.     George W. Bush came in second, with 28 percent naming him as the worst recent president, followed by Richard Nixon with 13 percent.

http://gawker.com/breaking-if-you-conduct-a-poll-made-up-of-73-percent-w-1599205371

"BREAKING: If you conduct a poll made up of 73 percent whites, 61 percent Midwesterners and Southerners, 66 percent non-college grads, 69 percent non-Democrats and 56 percent land-line users, you can get a Politico headline proclaiming Obama the worst president since World War II"
How about the pew polls showing Americans no longer believe america is #1 and the sharp decline in that belief since 2011? Or the Gallup polls showing Americans by in large are less satisfied with their freedoms than they were 7 years ago?

Nvm... I'm sure they have no merit either.
They might. I agree that we have less freedom, just look at the Hobby Lobby decision.
What was wrong with the Hobby Lobby decision?
In my opinion, plenty.

Even if we accept the premise that a corporation is a person, the entire point of forming a corporation is to create legal separation of the shareholders from the entity. The entity doesn't have religion because the entity is a fictional "person."

Beyond that, even if we accept that the entity could have religious rights, I don't think those rights are violated by someone else taking a prescription. The company has no more right to dictate how employees use benefits than it does to dictate how employees use their salaries.

In my opinion, the employees are the one's whose rights are infringed upon when their employer decides what prescription can and cannot be covered by health insurance.
So, in your opinion, anytime a person or group of people decide to form a business, they have to forfeit any personal beliefs they have in running that business?

What incentive does that give those people to go into business at all?
Nope. But the fictional entity that they form in order to legally separate themselves from the business doesn't have religious rights.

The owners of the corporation are free to not take birth control pills.


7/3/2014 12:42 PM
Aren't there restrictions on prescriptions now?

I'll answer my own question.  Yes.   My wife takes a specific medicine because the one she likes isn't covered by our insurance.
7/3/2014 12:55 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/3/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):
Aren't there restrictions on prescriptions now?

I'll answer my own question.  Yes.   My wife takes a specific medicine because the one she likes isn't covered by our insurance.
She can buy it with her own money but the insurance plan will not cover the cost.

I guess the same could apply to birth control devices, no?
7/3/2014 12:57 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/3/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):
Aren't there restrictions on prescriptions now?

I'll answer my own question.  Yes.   My wife takes a specific medicine because the one she likes isn't covered by our insurance.
Sure. But, as far as I know, birth control is covered by all insurance companies.
7/3/2014 12:59 PM
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Posted by The Taint on 7/3/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Yes, so let hobby lobby give them a different IUD, maybe one that they invest in. I mean they invest in them being made, so they must not have many objections about that one.
I'll be honest, I haven't followed the HL case.   But wasn't their objection to providing a "morning after" pill and two specific IUD?    If that's the case, aren't there at least 3 types of IUD on the market?
7/3/2014 1:04 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/3/2014 1:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 7/3/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Yes, so let hobby lobby give them a different IUD, maybe one that they invest in. I mean they invest in them being made, so they must not have many objections about that one.
I'll be honest, I haven't followed the HL case.   But wasn't their objection to providing a "morning after" pill and two specific IUD?    If that's the case, aren't there at least 3 types of IUD on the market?
Why does your boss get to choose what prescriptions your health insurance will cover for you? If I use IUD A vs IUD B, how are HL's rights violated?
7/3/2014 1:06 PM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
I'm not an IUD expert but, if HL is objecting to two SPECIFIC types, is it possible that they do SOMETHING differently?   Maybe use a substance that kills sperm AND fertilized eggs?
7/3/2014 1:14 PM
FTR, I have no problem with abortion, I'm all for more of them, but, if I did, I sure as **** wouldn't want to pay for one.   
7/3/2014 1:16 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/3/2014 1:16:00 PM (view original):
FTR, I have no problem with abortion, I'm all for more of them, but, if I did, I sure as **** wouldn't want to pay for one.   
HL isn't paying for abortions. They're paying for health insurance. 
7/3/2014 1:26 PM
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Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

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