1/15/2013 10:04 PM
Landis was just the first name that anyone in this country would recognize and respond to.  There were all kinds of allegations mounting against Armstrong from various sources for years, all while it became clear that the entire sport was dirty, which would have required the narrative to become that the one clean racer was dominating all the cheats - fun, but unlikely.  No one in this country cares about cycling,  no one in our media would see any value in going after Armstrong absent a smoking gun, and pretty much everyone wanted to believe him, so Lance was always able to control the message until this last USADA investigation.
1/19/2013 5:45 PM
can we get back on subject?

had Clemens never been a Yankee he'd get my vote

but he was, and now he doesn't

cheatin skank
1/19/2013 6:14 PM
You don't have a vote, Mr. F.Sucker.


STFU.
1/21/2013 9:13 AM
K
8/23/2013 2:12 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/20/2012 12:35:00 PM (view original):
I mentioned a theory a few years ago after reading "The Rocket that fell to earth".

I think he was working hard, just like always, and not getting the same results.
He tried something that allowed him to work harder(which is really all 'roids do).
After awhile, he began to believe that the lack of previous results was a mental issue.   That maybe he wasn't pushing himself hard enough.
Over time, he believes that what he took was nothing more than a placebo, or a B-12 shot, and that the results were simply him busting his ***.

Just another version of repeating the same lie so many times that you begin to believe it's the truth.    So I believe he believes that he took nothing that helped him physically.  He just needed the mental boost. 
Braun seems to be using this as his excuse for lying. 
8/23/2013 2:38 PM (edited)
Eh, I don't buy it. These guys may not have known the exact chemical make-up of the things they were taking, but they knew they were breaking the rules. Braun got caught and regardless of whether or not he believed the PEDs were helping, deserved a suspension.

It also seems like there is a lot of evidence (actual evidence, not just, "dude got buff") that Clemens also used PEDs.
8/23/2013 3:09 PM
I'm going to assume you have never been an elite athlete.   I imagine they have a different mindset. 
8/23/2013 4:03 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/23/2013 3:09:00 PM (view original):
I'm going to assume you have never been an elite athlete.   I imagine they have a different mindset. 
A mindset that you're intimately familiar with?

I'm going to assume that you're literally making **** up at this point.
8/23/2013 4:25 PM
YUP
8/23/2013 5:14 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/23/2013 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/23/2013 3:09:00 PM (view original):
I'm going to assume you have never been an elite athlete.   I imagine they have a different mindset. 
A mindset that you're intimately familiar with?

I'm going to assume that you're literally making **** up at this point.
Nope.  Just common sense. 

Do you think athletes reach the pinnacle of their sport by hitting the gym twice a week and taking some BP when it's nice out?

And I did use "imagine".   I played against a few guys that reached the bigs.  They were a lot more focused on baseball than I was.   Worked a lot harder too.  I "imagine" they had a different mindset than me. 
8/23/2013 5:34 PM
AND WERE MORE TALENTED THAN YER FAT-TRUCKER-***
8/23/2013 5:35 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/23/2013 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/23/2013 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/23/2013 3:09:00 PM (view original):
I'm going to assume you have never been an elite athlete.   I imagine they have a different mindset. 
A mindset that you're intimately familiar with?

I'm going to assume that you're literally making **** up at this point.
Nope.  Just common sense. 

Do you think athletes reach the pinnacle of their sport by hitting the gym twice a week and taking some BP when it's nice out?

And I did use "imagine".   I played against a few guys that reached the bigs.  They were a lot more focused on baseball than I was.   Worked a lot harder too.  I "imagine" they had a different mindset than me. 
Nope, I think athletes reach the pinnacle by working extremely hard and paying very close attention to what goes into their bodies.
8/23/2013 5:51 PM
Posted by antoncresten on 8/23/2013 5:34:00 PM (view original):
AND WERE MORE TALENTED THAN YER FAT-TRUCKER-***
Mebbe, mebbe not.   But ***** and beer became pretty important in my early teens.   I was always trying to get one or the other.
8/23/2013 5:53 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/23/2013 5:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/23/2013 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/23/2013 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/23/2013 3:09:00 PM (view original):
I'm going to assume you have never been an elite athlete.   I imagine they have a different mindset. 
A mindset that you're intimately familiar with?

I'm going to assume that you're literally making **** up at this point.
Nope.  Just common sense. 

Do you think athletes reach the pinnacle of their sport by hitting the gym twice a week and taking some BP when it's nice out?

And I did use "imagine".   I played against a few guys that reached the bigs.  They were a lot more focused on baseball than I was.   Worked a lot harder too.  I "imagine" they had a different mindset than me. 
Nope, I think athletes reach the pinnacle by working extremely hard and paying very close attention to what goes into their bodies.
I'm sure about the hard work.  I'm also pretty sure they believe the hard work they put in is more important than anything else.    Including what they ingest.
8/23/2013 6:27 PM
Ok, I would agree with them.

What I wouldn't agree with is the idea that them not believing that the steroids helped serves as an excuse or justification. I don't 1) believe that they were that naive and 2) really give a **** what they believed, steroids are against the rules.

I think Clemens has a good case for greatest pitcher of all time. But his case is slightly* tainted by the strong evidence that he took steroids. Just like Bonds' case for greatest offensive player of all time is slightly* tainted by the strong evidence that he took steroids. I'd still put them both in the hall tomorrow if I could.

*degree of taint varies from person to person. I tend to care less about PEDs than a lot of people.
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