OK, Perfessor Einstein, riddle me this:

Example: Pitchers X and Y are both capable of throwing 3000 pitches at 100% over the 200 or so day season (spring training and regular), if I understand your assertion correctly.

Pitcher X throws 100 pitches in ST game 1, and another 100 pitches in ST game 6.  He's shut down for the rest of ST.
Pitcher Y is shut down for ALL of ST.

Is it your contention that pitcher X is only capable of throwing 2800 pitches during the regular season before he hits some mysterous wall, while pitcher Y can throw all 3000 pitches in the regular season before he hits the same mysterious wall?

Not exactly but you are catching on(and I know what you're doing).

Pitchers have to throw "regularly" and be rested on a similar schedule.   If pitcher X starts game 1 while pitcher Y starts game 2 of the season and both throw an identical number of pitches every 5th day, pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does.  That is also assuming that they have an identical DUR/STM combo.

MikeT: How do playoffs come into play then?  Along your logic that there is some upper limit to the amount of pitches thrown...if a theoretical pitcher uses those all up on game 162 of the season, shouldn't he be unavailable for the playoffs?

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 8:31:00 AM:

That would seem counter-intuitive to how it works and would require a separate fatigue calculation for playoffs that I doubt exisits.  Tec's theory of an unlimited supply of innings if used right seems to be the simpler of the two ideas.

Of course it does.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:20:00 PM (view original):
Not exactly but you are catching on(and I know what you're doing).

Pitchers have to throw "regularly" and be rested on a similar schedule.   If pitcher X starts game 1 while pitcher Y starts game 2 of the season and both throw an identical number of pitches every 5th day, pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does.  That is also assuming that they have an identical DUR/STM combo.

I'm not sure what I'm "catching on" to since I haven't changed what I've been saying or thinking in this thread.

But can you clarify what you mean by "pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does"?  Are you saying that his fatigue recovery slows down?

Posted by bigal888 on 7/20/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
MikeT: How do playoffs come into play then?  Along your logic that there is some upper limit to the amount of pitches thrown...if a theoretical pitcher uses those all up on game 162 of the season, shouldn't he be unavailable for the playoffs?

This is actually the smartest question that has been proposed.

I think fatigue resets.   32 teams participate in ST and the regular season.  12 participate in the post-season.  I don't think a seperate program or reset, especially since a new schedule is created, is out of the question.    Now, as much as I'd like to say I know this for a fact, I do not.   I've never had a position player get more fatigued during the playoffs but I generally have them, and my pitchers, at 100%.   I've had position players bounce between 99 and 100 at the end of the regular season who played the post-season at 100%.  And I've had guys enter the playoffs at 98% and never hit 97%.    Maybe the extra off day did it, maybe I'm right.

But, again, I don't think any of us uses our pitchers to 100% capacity.   I know I don't. 

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:20:00 PM (view original):
Not exactly but you are catching on(and I know what you're doing).

Pitchers have to throw "regularly" and be rested on a similar schedule.   If pitcher X starts game 1 while pitcher Y starts game 2 of the season and both throw an identical number of pitches every 5th day, pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does.  That is also assuming that they have an identical DUR/STM combo.

I'm not sure what I'm "catching on" to since I haven't changed what I've been saying or thinking in this thread.

But can you clarify what you mean by "pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does"?  Are you saying that his fatigue recovery slows down?

Yep, that's what I'm saying.   Maybe they were 31/55/78/100 and pitcher X becomes 28/51/73/94/100.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bigal888 on 7/20/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
MikeT: How do playoffs come into play then?  Along your logic that there is some upper limit to the amount of pitches thrown...if a theoretical pitcher uses those all up on game 162 of the season, shouldn't he be unavailable for the playoffs?

This is actually the smartest question that has been proposed.

I think fatigue resets.   32 teams participate in ST and the regular season.  12 participate in the post-season.  I don't think a seperate program or reset, especially since a new schedule is created, is out of the question.    Now, as much as I'd like to say I know this for a fact, I do not.   I've never had a position player get more fatigued during the playoffs but I generally have them, and my pitchers, at 100%.   I've had position players bounce between 99 and 100 at the end of the regular season who played the post-season at 100%.  And I've had guys enter the playoffs at 98% and never hit 97%.    Maybe the extra off day did it, maybe I'm right.

But, again, I don't think any of us uses our pitchers to 100% capacity.   I know I don't. 

Did somebody hack your account?  Because this is by far the dumbest thing you've posted today.  I'd like to give you more credit than that.

Fatigue definitely carries over into the playoffs, there is no reset.  If you've ever had to start your ace in game 162 to earn the WC2, you'd notice that he's not at 100% to start the first round.  And if you pushed your position players hard down the stretch because you were trying to earn that WC2 spot, you're not going to see them magically go from 93% in game 162 to 100% for playoff game 1.

Fatigue is less of an issue during the playoffs because of all the off-days, so there is more recovery, but there definitely is a carry-over from the regular season, and it seems to follow the exact same model that is used for spring training and the regular season.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:20:00 PM (view original):
Not exactly but you are catching on(and I know what you're doing).

Pitchers have to throw "regularly" and be rested on a similar schedule.   If pitcher X starts game 1 while pitcher Y starts game 2 of the season and both throw an identical number of pitches every 5th day, pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does.  That is also assuming that they have an identical DUR/STM combo.

I'm not sure what I'm "catching on" to since I haven't changed what I've been saying or thinking in this thread.

But can you clarify what you mean by "pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does"?  Are you saying that his fatigue recovery slows down?

Yep, that's what I'm saying.   Maybe they were 31/55/78/100 and pitcher X becomes 28/51/73/94/100.

Well, you (or somebody) is just going to have to produce some real data to back that up.  Because I've never seen that.

As I've been saying all along, pitching fatigue and recovery is short-term, cyclical, and predictable.  I guess I'll also have to add "consistent", though I would have though that "predictable" would have mplied that.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 3:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bigal888 on 7/20/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
MikeT: How do playoffs come into play then?  Along your logic that there is some upper limit to the amount of pitches thrown...if a theoretical pitcher uses those all up on game 162 of the season, shouldn't he be unavailable for the playoffs?

This is actually the smartest question that has been proposed.

I think fatigue resets.   32 teams participate in ST and the regular season.  12 participate in the post-season.  I don't think a seperate program or reset, especially since a new schedule is created, is out of the question.    Now, as much as I'd like to say I know this for a fact, I do not.   I've never had a position player get more fatigued during the playoffs but I generally have them, and my pitchers, at 100%.   I've had position players bounce between 99 and 100 at the end of the regular season who played the post-season at 100%.  And I've had guys enter the playoffs at 98% and never hit 97%.    Maybe the extra off day did it, maybe I'm right.

But, again, I don't think any of us uses our pitchers to 100% capacity.   I know I don't. 

Did somebody hack your account?  Because this is by far the dumbest thing you've posted today.  I'd like to give you more credit than that.

Fatigue definitely carries over into the playoffs, there is no reset.  If you've ever had to start your ace in game 162 to earn the WC2, you'd notice that he's not at 100% to start the first round.  And if you pushed your position players hard down the stretch because you were trying to earn that WC2 spot, you're not going to see them magically go from 93% in game 162 to 100% for playoff game 1.

Fatigue is less of an issue during the playoffs because of all the off-days, so there is more recovery, but there definitely is a carry-over from the regular season, and it seems to follow the exact same model that is used for spring training and the regular season.

Had you been capable of reading the entire paragraph, I know that's a lot of words, you'd notice that AT NO POINT did I say "Reset to 100%".    

Please have someone read the whole thing to you.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 3:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:20:00 PM (view original):
Not exactly but you are catching on(and I know what you're doing).

Pitchers have to throw "regularly" and be rested on a similar schedule.   If pitcher X starts game 1 while pitcher Y starts game 2 of the season and both throw an identical number of pitches every 5th day, pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does.  That is also assuming that they have an identical DUR/STM combo.

I'm not sure what I'm "catching on" to since I haven't changed what I've been saying or thinking in this thread.

But can you clarify what you mean by "pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does"?  Are you saying that his fatigue recovery slows down?

Yep, that's what I'm saying.   Maybe they were 31/55/78/100 and pitcher X becomes 28/51/73/94/100.

Well, you (or somebody) is just going to have to produce some real data to back that up.  Because I've never seen that.

As I've been saying all along, pitching fatigue and recovery is short-term, cyclical, and predictable.  I guess I'll also have to add "consistent", though I would have though that "predictable" would have mplied that.

So can I just post some numbers and say "This is MY data.   Whether you believe it or not is up to you"?

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 3:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 3:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bigal888 on 7/20/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
MikeT: How do playoffs come into play then?  Along your logic that there is some upper limit to the amount of pitches thrown...if a theoretical pitcher uses those all up on game 162 of the season, shouldn't he be unavailable for the playoffs?

This is actually the smartest question that has been proposed.

I think fatigue resets.   32 teams participate in ST and the regular season.  12 participate in the post-season.  I don't think a seperate program or reset, especially since a new schedule is created, is out of the question.    Now, as much as I'd like to say I know this for a fact, I do not.   I've never had a position player get more fatigued during the playoffs but I generally have them, and my pitchers, at 100%.   I've had position players bounce between 99 and 100 at the end of the regular season who played the post-season at 100%.  And I've had guys enter the playoffs at 98% and never hit 97%.    Maybe the extra off day did it, maybe I'm right.

But, again, I don't think any of us uses our pitchers to 100% capacity.   I know I don't. 

Did somebody hack your account?  Because this is by far the dumbest thing you've posted today.  I'd like to give you more credit than that.

Fatigue definitely carries over into the playoffs, there is no reset.  If you've ever had to start your ace in game 162 to earn the WC2, you'd notice that he's not at 100% to start the first round.  And if you pushed your position players hard down the stretch because you were trying to earn that WC2 spot, you're not going to see them magically go from 93% in game 162 to 100% for playoff game 1.

Fatigue is less of an issue during the playoffs because of all the off-days, so there is more recovery, but there definitely is a carry-over from the regular season, and it seems to follow the exact same model that is used for spring training and the regular season.

Had you been capable of reading the entire paragraph, I know that's a lot of words, you'd notice that AT NO POINT did I say "Reset to 100%".    

Please have someone read the whole thing to you.

Well, if it doesn't reset to 100%, then what would it reset to?  And why?  And does that make any sense?

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 3:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 3:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 2:20:00 PM (view original):
Not exactly but you are catching on(and I know what you're doing).

Pitchers have to throw "regularly" and be rested on a similar schedule.   If pitcher X starts game 1 while pitcher Y starts game 2 of the season and both throw an identical number of pitches every 5th day, pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does.  That is also assuming that they have an identical DUR/STM combo.

I'm not sure what I'm "catching on" to since I haven't changed what I've been saying or thinking in this thread.

But can you clarify what you mean by "pitcher X will fall short of 100% recovery before pitcher Y does"?  Are you saying that his fatigue recovery slows down?

Yep, that's what I'm saying.   Maybe they were 31/55/78/100 and pitcher X becomes 28/51/73/94/100.

Well, you (or somebody) is just going to have to produce some real data to back that up.  Because I've never seen that.

As I've been saying all along, pitching fatigue and recovery is short-term, cyclical, and predictable.  I guess I'll also have to add "consistent", though I would have though that "predictable" would have mplied that.

So can I just post some numbers and say "This is MY data.   Whether you believe it or not is up to you"?

Sure.  Go right ahead, if that floats your boat.