Previous coach promised minutes? Topic

llamanunts
Posts: 1498 (0)
Hall of Famer
29 95
Hall of Famer
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/28/2012 5:55:00 PM (view original):
Another response to your prior response to me:

We're discussing, at the core, human nature in this thread.  With that being the case, I think the fact that most people seem to agree IS a valid argument.  I'd say the perception of human nature is inherently somewhat subjective, but the more you move from the individual to the group consensus the more likely it is that the correct perception of human nature is construed.
Love this thought.  Well done.
8/28/2012 8:35 PM
a_in_the_b
Posts: 1653 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 18 570 3
Pro
Posted by bistiza on 8/28/2012 8:18:00 PM (view original):
dahsbebater,

I'm trying to get answers from my fellow HD players. If you want to participate in that, fine, that's good. I'll respect your opinion is yours even if you disagree with me.

However, I don't hurl insults or make personal attacks toward you or anyone, and I'd ask you to maintain the same courtesy. There is no call for those kinds of things.
Then do us a courtesy as well of not being so disingenuous.

It can be depressing, but it's human nature that disappointed people tend not to work as hard. And disappointed people who are used to, at high school, being the stars of their teams are often doubly so. I'm sorry you don't like reality, but that does not make reality change itself to please you.
8/28/2012 8:47 PM
llamanunts
Posts: 1498 (0)
Hall of Famer
29 95
Hall of Famer
Posted by fd343ny on 8/28/2012 4:49:00 PM (view original):

Anyone ever actually coached a team where every player tried his hardest?  all the time?  despite being disappointments in playing time or life?

lots of folks here coach something - I have never coached any group in which everyone tried their hardest all the time.

At 17 (18?  I think it might have been 18.), I co-coached a CYO team of 3rd-6th graders with another current HD coach.  Andy Foy was a really good all-around player.  Glen(n?) McCabe was a big kid, pretty athletic.  Jeff Janos was the 3rd grader.  He was about 3 feet tall.  He played a solid point for the B squad, could dribble and shoot a little.  Matt White was tall and for some reason could hit halfcourt shots.  I think he won a game for us that way, or at least put us into overtime.  We sneaked him in on the B squad once in a while because we could stretch a plausible lineup for the A squad without him, but in reality it was kind of unethical of us.  Now I want to talk about the rest of the team (any Black Team veterans playing HD?), the Yoo-Hoo Free Throw Incentive turned Punishment, the time we tried to get our fellow high school students to come to our playoff game... but this is about the Dolans.

They weren't brothers.  TJ Dolan was this athletic blond kid.  He scored about 50% of our points.  That may be a conservative estimate.  I have no idea what his work ethic would translate to.  He was, it seemed, just naturally good.

Kevin Dolan was a good kid.  He was also tall.  Half a head taller than the other kids, long-limbed and moved pretty well for his height.  He just wasn't into it, or just was never comfortable.  He came to practice in jeans (not necessarily his choice and all) and played tentatively.  It was tough to help him get better because as the player you have to be committed and try.  His WE at the start was maybe 25 and only dropped as he didn't succeed.

He scored 22 ppg as a junior at Maryland.  Go figure.
8/28/2012 9:00 PM (edited)
llamanunts
Posts: 1498 (0)
Hall of Famer
29 95
Hall of Famer
No he didn't.  I'm kidding!
8/28/2012 8:53 PM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Show
bistiza
Posts: 3022 (0)
Hall of Famer
40 50 11 185 15
Prospect
I'm not being disingenuous in any way.

Sure, sometimes people get disappointed (or any number of other emotions) and don't work as hard. That's life. Sometimes things we can't control affect our human emotions.

The difference is that respectable people don't DECIDE not to work hard simply because things don't go their way. There are plenty of people in real life who don't do it, so to have all of the players in the game do it doesn't make logical sense. That's reality, and it doesn't have to change one bit for me.

emy1013, I think I'll take your advice. I'm glad he decided to stop hurling insults and I don't mind having reasonable discussion with him, but I was beginning to wonder if dahsdebater was only here to argue with me or anyone who disagrees with him.

I don't mind good discussion, but I don't want a pointless argument, so I'll stop "feeding the troll".

Still, I won't allow a "troll" to ruin the good discussion we were having, so if anyone else has any ideas on how players WE is affected by not getting minutes, feel free to respond.
8/29/2012 12:17 PM
zbrent716
Posts: 1970 (0)
Hall of Famer
90 1 58 77
Prospect
Posted by bistiza on 8/29/2012 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I'm not being disingenuous in any way.

Sure, sometimes people get disappointed (or any number of other emotions) and don't work as hard. That's life. Sometimes things we can't control affect our human emotions.

The difference is that respectable people don't DECIDE not to work hard simply because things don't go their way. There are plenty of people in real life who don't do it, so to have all of the players in the game do it doesn't make logical sense. That's reality, and it doesn't have to change one bit for me.

emy1013, I think I'll take your advice. I'm glad he decided to stop hurling insults and I don't mind having reasonable discussion with him, but I was beginning to wonder if dahsdebater was only here to argue with me or anyone who disagrees with him.

I don't mind good discussion, but I don't want a pointless argument, so I'll stop "feeding the troll".

Still, I won't allow a "troll" to ruin the good discussion we were having, so if anyone else has any ideas on how players WE is affected by not getting minutes, feel free to respond.
emy1013, I think I'll take your advice. I'm glad he decided to stop hurling insults and I don't mind having reasonable discussion with him, but I was beginning to wonder if dahsdebater was only here to argue with me or anyone who disagrees with him.

I don't mind good discussion, but I don't want a pointless argument, so I'll stop "feeding the troll".

Still, I won't allow a "troll" to ruin the good discussion we were having, so if anyone else has any ideas on how players WE is affected by not getting minutes, feel free to respond.

I see what you did there! I hate to feed the troll, but that was kinda clever. 
8/29/2012 12:24 PM
reddyred
Posts: 230 (0)
Hall of Famer
46
Prospect
Just my opinion here:

I don't disagree with WE dropping especially with upperclassmen who are getting less minutes. What you are in effect telling an upperclassmen when a fresh or sph gets more PT is that they are less valuable to the team. You are in effect saying that if it comes down to it I can do without you on this team. In response to this the players WE degrades. Maybe this is not universal across the board in RL but what really is in RL? Here in WIS this is an effect of poor roster management which as girt stated is part of the game.

This is a simulation and is based on RL but we can always find ways the sim doesn't reflect RL.
8/29/2012 12:30 PM
a_in_the_b
Posts: 1653 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 18 570 3
Pro
Posted by bistiza on 8/29/2012 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I'm not being disingenuous in any way.

Sure, sometimes people get disappointed (or any number of other emotions) and don't work as hard. That's life. Sometimes things we can't control affect our human emotions.

The difference is that respectable people don't DECIDE not to work hard simply because things don't go their way. There are plenty of people in real life who don't do it, so to have all of the players in the game do it doesn't make logical sense. That's reality, and it doesn't have to change one bit for me.

emy1013, I think I'll take your advice. I'm glad he decided to stop hurling insults and I don't mind having reasonable discussion with him, but I was beginning to wonder if dahsdebater was only here to argue with me or anyone who disagrees with him.

I don't mind good discussion, but I don't want a pointless argument, so I'll stop "feeding the troll".

Still, I won't allow a "troll" to ruin the good discussion we were having, so if anyone else has any ideas on how players WE is affected by not getting minutes, feel free to respond.
... And here you seem to presume the average person is, in fact, respectable.
8/29/2012 12:46 PM
bistiza
Posts: 3022 (0)
Hall of Famer
40 50 11 185 15
Prospect
zbrent,

I'm not trying to be clever. I was merely pointing out I thought emy1013 had a point, which I took to be I shouldn't allow dahsdebater to sidetrack me (or more to the point, the discussion) by bring me into a foolish argument. Instead, we should be discussing the actual game, as I had originally intended.

reddyred,

Exactly - I'm telling this player he isn't as valuable to the team (either now, in the long run, or both) as our freshman or sophmore players. Still, in real life, players are usually aware of their own abilities respective to others on a team, and while they may not be thrilled with it, I'm sure many of them would accept the best decision for the team over their own personal demands.

I agree there may be players who behave badly when they don't get playing time. All I'm really questioning is why it is every player in the game, as some here have indicated, when that wouldn't be accurately based on real life or anything else.

a_in_the_b,

No, I don't think the average person is respectable. In fact, I'd argue against anyone who said something like that.  I think most people are NOT respectable.

Having said that, when I'm in charge in any given situation, I don't tolerate disrespect to me or to the situation itself. If you don't want to work hard and get the job done (whatever it may be), then I'll find someone to replace you.

I have that same attitude with regards to this game, which is why I suggested WIS should make some players crybabies who demand minutes and some who are respectable and allow us to somehow determine that during recruiting so that I (or whomever) may recruit only players who are respectable if they wish.
8/29/2012 1:00 PM
arssanguinus
Posts: 1120 (0)
Hall of Famer
245 1
Pro
You know how easy it is to avoid the problem and how minor the drop is in most cases? Mountain, meet molehill ...
8/29/2012 1:41 PM
reddyred
Posts: 230 (0)
Hall of Famer
46
Prospect
Well honestly i think your logic of WE would apply more to football maybe which has more of a team oriented mindset than basketball (I'm refering more to unskilled positions in football here which also don't exist in bball). There are guys on college squads who are basically practice dummies and can accept that and would probably jump at the chance to get 5 minutes in a real game. These are the type players who would be more responsive to what you're suggesting.

Basketball is a bit different. It's a prima donna sport. Everyone thinks they are the best, everyone wants to be Jordan and the ego's can exist at all positions where in football an egotistical O'lineman may be pretty rare- not saying they don't have egos but even if they did it would be less of an issue . Also there are so many schools you can play bball that if a bball player isn't happy they can leave and go elsewhere. You are stressing basically the player should accept your word and authority as coach and be content, not lose motivation and continue working for the team when the fact is you've already chosen his replacement. This player has more options available and may say " Coach I need 5 to 6 more minutes or I have to consider transferring". He knows it's a done deal and is basically giving you an ultimatum in hopes that you change your position. Perfectly logical. Now can you find the players you describe who are die hard team, yes, but the higher the level of bball the less likely you find these players so it turns into a universal thing considereing there are more D1 schools.
8/29/2012 1:42 PM
emy1013
Posts: 2731 (0)
Hall of Famer
828
Prospect
Posted by gillispie1 on 8/29/2012 1:28:00 PM (view original):
this is a horrible thread. what a terrible decision to skirt the forum recommendation to just hide the stupid thing. the only good post in the whole damn thread is, bistiza is living in a fantasty world in a simulation game, or whatever it was.
 
"Someone is living in a fantasy world in a simulated world."  Is that the right one?
8/29/2012 1:48 PM
dahsdebater
Posts: 10036 (0)
Hall of Famer
284 270 18
Pro
I think bistiza actually doesn't realize he's the troll.  That's hilarious...
8/29/2012 2:13 PM
dahsdebater
Posts: 10036 (0)
Hall of Famer
284 270 18
Pro
Posted by bistiza on 8/28/2012 7:59:00 PM (view original):
Sorry; posted several times instead of all at once.

Work ethic is the games measure of practice and determination to get better, at least that's what I'm given to understand, which means it affects more than just telling me he's not happy.

I think the problem in real life is too many players (people in general as well) feel somehow entitled to things instead of being willing to work toward the goal of getting what they want.

I'm not trying to force "my logic" on the sim. I just think it's tremendously flawed to think all players will react like some of you insist they will.
I think the problem in real life is too many players (people in general as well) feel somehow entitled to things instead of being willing to work toward the goal of getting what they want.

You're not being disingenuous, you simply admit that in real life most players do the thing you don't want them to do and therefore don't think they should do.  Even though you essentially admitted right here that you recognize it's not unrealistic.  I think that's all that needs to be said.
8/29/2012 2:15 PM
◂ Prev 1|2|3|4|5|6...32 Next ▸
Previous coach promised minutes? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.