Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
angmar,

Yes, some people are like the person you mention. They get frustrated when they don't get what they want and they take it out on others. They stop working very hard, or they make demands, or they just quit.

From everything I've seen, those types of people are the exception rather than the rule. Most people don't quit at something if they don't get whatever they want.

Even people who want to do this usually don't because there are often consequences they'd rather avoid.

If you think otherwise, perhaps you should suggest to the person you mention that he should go to his boss and demand an immediately effective raise to double what he presently makes and make it known if that doesn't happen he'll either work very lazily or quit altogether. 

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:14:00 PM (view original):
For the puposes of the game, I'm suggesting adding a practice option to the list of those which already exist.

It would function like study hall - you may not have to use it, but it's there. If a kid drops GPA, you give him study hall. Well, if a kid loses WE or makes demands, you could give him "run laps" or something similar, and this would alleivate those issues the same way study hall works with GPA.

Just like study hall, it would require strategy to use, because it would take away from practice time which could be used elsewhere. Along with this, it would be nice if, as I suggested earlier in the thread, there were ways to know if a kid was more or less prone to losing WE or complaining, so we could avoid those kids if we want to avoid use of "run laps" practice time.

Overall, I think implementing something along those levels, if done properly, would add a measure of realistic depth to the game.

?three quarters of people are too lazy to EVEN TRY TO MAKE THE TEAM, if not more.

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:38:00 PM (view original):
fd343ny,

Just cut the kid if you don't want them.

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
angmar,

Yes, some people are like the person you mention. They get frustrated when they don't get what they want and they take it out on others. They stop working very hard, or they make demands, or they just quit.

From everything I've seen, those types of people are the exception rather than the rule. Most people don't quit at something if they don't get whatever they want.

Even people who want to do this usually don't because there are often consequences they'd rather avoid.

If you think otherwise, perhaps you should suggest to the person you mention that he should go to his boss and demand an immediately effective raise to double what he presently makes and make it known if that doesn't happen he'll either work very lazily or quit altogether. 

Posted by fd343ny on 9/7/2012 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:38:00 PM (view original):
fd343ny,

Just cut the kid if you don't want them.

sure, but if you cut him you suffer a rep hit (depending on whether you signed him)

and if you cut him you dont get the $$$ until a season's delay

if we are giving texture to player attitudes, practices, etc, why not this too?  it happens in real life.

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 2:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 9:02:00 AM (view original):

The thread is this long because the original discussion was good

 

I agree to disagree on this

Sorry; that's not an option here because I WON'T agree to disagree in this particular instance.

The original discussion was good for a time before certain people sidetracked it (and I'm sad to say, I responded to them). If you disagree, either defend your opinion or acknowledge you have no defense for it.

fd343ny,

You shouldn't suffer a rep hit if you didn't sign the kid.

If you did, then you shouldn't be wanting to cut him in the first place.

Umm, yeah, we both work for the Feds under a structured salary system, so going to our boss and demanding a raise wouldn't quite work anyway, but nice try.

You're missing the point. If it helps, assume we're talking about someone else who CAN demand a raise or threaten to work less hard/quit their job. Try making that ultimatum and see if it gets you anywhere then - that's the point.

Imagine being in your military job and telling the person you report to that you're not doing what they want unless you get what you want, and if they refuse, you're going to quit. I bet that wouldn't fly there, either.

People who get "punished" as you put it tend to fall into line with the rules, provided they know why they were punished and what is behavior is expected to be changed. It may not mean their work ethic is raised, but it does mean they'll do what they are supposed to do. The only way to reflect this in the game is to put it under something called "work ethic", but that doesn't mean it would necessarily be reflected as a rise in someone's work ethic in real life.

The point for HD is I want the kid to show me some respect as coach. He gets to ask for minutes (or whatever) but if I say no, then that's the way it goes down because I'm in charge. If he can't do that, then he can run laps until he's ready to do it.

piper,

You've got some good thoughts in this post about how kids may react and how the game gives clues in emails. Thanks for the input on that. I'll try to look for those clues in the game.

 

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:37:00 PM (view original):

?three quarters of people are too lazy to EVEN TRY TO MAKE THE TEAM, if not more.

You seem to be forgetting we're not talking about people who don't even try (in terms of HD) but those who not only try but also are good enough to be recruited to be on the team.

Discussion of "the majority of Americans" doesn't have anything to do with it.

milk,

The point of the practice option would be twofold:

First, it would prevent a player from LOSING his work ethic, even if he weren't happy with his situation or otherwise had a reason where he would lose some points there. This is the primary goal, the same way adding minutes to study hall's primary goal is to prevent a player from failing and becoming ineligable.

Second, it would provide an option for coaches to directly improve a player's WE, the way they can with other abilities. This way, if you as a coach for whatever reason want to increase a player's WE, you have a way to do it.

If you happen to think it would negate any beneficial effects, that's your decision to make.