you have to use inform of redshirt on the guys you want to redshirt, after initially promising a start. thats usually what, 2k on a local player? not bad, if you don't really intend to redshirt the guy in the first place. if i really want to redshirt someone, ill try to tell them ahead of time anyway, so in that case, there is nothing lost... just the chance to lose that free redshirt (which is pretty useful sometimes, ill admit).

now, im not promising *every* player a start. i dont promise pulldowns, who are often the best players and the guys i really want to redshirt anyway. and if there is a d2 guy i really want in the first place, who is the kind of guy id love to redshirt? im usually not going at him for a couple hundred dollars then, and i definitely will promise a start for the extra credit, in the hopes of getting him alone and deterring any other initial suitors. and all those other d2 players, i have no idea if i want or not, maybe hes a backup and maybe i want to scout him? its just not worth spending the few hundred extra dollars in the off chance i sign this guy and didnt inform anyone of redshirt and can't get anyone else to take a free one. so i do the 110 dollar special (note: lower prestige schools may need to throw in some calls/letters)

in d1 i usually do promise every single player i go after a start. i dont think many coaches play that way, but for the life of me i cant figure out why - but i do think promised starts are probably the most misused and underused tool in the recruiting arsenal.

Posted by jjohn45 on 10/10/2012 8:54:00 PM (view original):
The other coach has not been active in over 40 seasons and he just shows up to put money on Florida Atlantic recruits. Can WIS tell you if this guy has more user names? Seems like you are obviously targeted and  WIS would want to protect the integrity of the game.

They said I would need to tell them who I suspected of intentionally targeting me. I have no idea, because as far as I know I do not have any enemies in HD. I really try to treat everyone courteously and help coaches who need advice etc. I also asked them what I should do if it happens again next year, and again they said that I would need to identify who I thought it might be so they could match IP addresses. Seems like this is something they could do on their own. If it happens again, and they do nothing, I'll have to reconsider if it's even worth continuing at Palm Beach, since it's a pretty hopeless situation to have multiple recruits poached at signing every year. Hopefully, this was just a very "one-time" occurrence. At the time this happened I had about $7,000 left. I ended up losing two of the three recruits. I felt like my best bet was to focus on only one of the three - the one I wanted most. So, I was able to offer a scholarship to a player I had wanted earlier - he was the one I had rescinded between 5 PM and 8 PM. So I got him for $100. I then found an undecided D2 PF, 60 miles away who was actually better than the 2 PFs that were poached that I decided to give up on. When I say better, he was batter at this moment but did not have the potential of tyhe others, but will still be a good player. I got him for 8 Scouting trips and a Scholarship, which was around $1,200. I sunk the rest into the SG that I wanted , and at 2 AM I was leading, but by 2 PM he was struggling. I had about $500 held back, so I did another HV, and promised a start. I also put a scholarship offer and a call in to a D2 player that had just dropped. He was still struggling between us at 2 AM. The next day I did one call, and he signed.

All in All, I ended up with a very good class considering what had happened to me.

If this happens again next season, I will post again, and I will raise a big stink, because if this happened two years in a row, I feel like this could really affect the integrity of the game. No one would want to play if this became a widespread technique, although I really don't see why it would.

Posted by tbird9423 on 10/10/2012 11:04:00 PM (view original):
Just my two cents and am a bit shocked by the responses.  I have also already heard and don't need to hear the same canned bs responses, but how about moving up to DIV II?  Your prestige is what and you are complaining?  Do you not realize that every season you "poach" someone from another team that would like to have that player.  You just can't have it both ways.  If you want to stick at DIV III A+ so you can dominate everyone below you, don't ***** and whine if someone does the exact same thing to you.  Especially if like the professor mentioned, they came up with a strategy that was so good it never even entered your mind?

  Nothing personal against you, more surprised by the responses.  I don't see how the logic of "there not yours until they're signed" changes when we're dealing with more recruits.  I think its kind of bush league to call a guy out on here with the obvious intent of putting him in a negative light.  Every season I have played, I have actually had multiple schools in Divisions above me take multiple players off my list, some considering me and some not.  If you're gonna go for players that a higher division might find attractive, there is really no one but yourself to blame.  Again, not speaking of the specific case (agree with others it may be personal) but for recruiting as a whole. 
 

    

It's more the way it was done tbird. I am not shocked if a D2 guy goes after one of the players I am after, but going after 3 players at 8 Pm is a bit much. I like staying at Palm Beach. I have 7 teams in various worlds, and some are at D2 and some at D1. I like this team, and I like the conference which has 12 humans in it. We have developed friendships, and I don't see any reason to move.

Posted by taniajane on 10/11/2012 12:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tbird9423 on 10/10/2012 11:04:00 PM (view original):
Just my two cents and am a bit shocked by the responses.  I have also already heard and don't need to hear the same canned bs responses, but how about moving up to DIV II?  Your prestige is what and you are complaining?  Do you not realize that every season you "poach" someone from another team that would like to have that player.  You just can't have it both ways.  If you want to stick at DIV III A+ so you can dominate everyone below you, don't ***** and whine if someone does the exact same thing to you.  Especially if like the professor mentioned, they came up with a strategy that was so good it never even entered your mind?

  Nothing personal against you, more surprised by the responses.  I don't see how the logic of "there not yours until they're signed" changes when we're dealing with more recruits.  I think its kind of bush league to call a guy out on here with the obvious intent of putting him in a negative light.  Every season I have played, I have actually had multiple schools in Divisions above me take multiple players off my list, some considering me and some not.  If you're gonna go for players that a higher division might find attractive, there is really no one but yourself to blame.  Again, not speaking of the specific case (agree with others it may be personal) but for recruiting as a whole. 
 

    

I agree rather hypocritical. They poach Div 2 players to Dominate Div 3 then whine when a Div 2 coach takes them from them.  And I agree move to Div 2 and try taking  3  or 4 Div 1 players and recruit against 1 Div 1 team and see what happens. Sure it IS SUSPICIOUS that one Div 2 coach took them. Take it as a compliment.

I guess we may have different definitions of the word "poach". I always thought "poach" meant move in on a guy at the very last minute. I didn't think "poach" and "pull down" meant the same thing. I had these guys considering me at 2 AM on the first night, and the only team I competed against was a SIM. Am I wrong on the definition of "Poach"? Like I said, I am not shocked if a D2 team competes with me, or even "poaches" one of my guys, using my definition of poach. I just think it was over the top to do that with 3 players. Kind of hard to believe that the 3 players I had were the only 3 players that were most appealing to this guy. But, it's over and done with - let's see what happens next year.

I like your attitude about this and am hopeful the word poach will at some point be replaced by the term win.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to the guys dogging me for putting mine out there, I do have the time to respond.  My shock did not suggest what you inferred but rather that I often see people say they were poached and the overwhelming response is... there is no such thing.  Usually 90% to 10% or something close to that-- I found it strange that when the guy had done multiples, the responses were so different, almost the other way.   I still don't understand that logic (and would like to).
    As I mentioned, I have heard the DIV III love story many times, and not just in WIS.  That attitude is prevalent in a large sector of the population and I'm definetely glad that it is-- But if you want to be the big fish in the small pond, don't get angry when another big fish flops its way in.

So you find it strange that one instance of something elicited one response while 3 instances at the same time elicited a different response?  You say you want to understand the logic..well it's not complicated.  One player of mine gets taken away at the last minute, I won't think anything about it.  Two players by the same school, well maybe that was just bad luck/coincidence (and that's happened, no angry sitemails).  Three players and I'm really going to be ****** off.  It's a question of degree.  Instead of just cutting me off in traffic, you're taking your giant SUV and playing bumper cars to get over in my lane.  There are plenty of other lanes you know.

I really don't appreciate your narrowminded inferences about D3 coaches.  I would absolutely love it if all the best coaches stayed in D3 to compete with me at the version of the game I like the best.  It has nothing to do with a small pond.  The game itself is very different in D1 and some people don't enjoy it as much.  Please stop suggesting that coaches only stay in D3 to beat up on the little guys.

I don't understand why people get their panties all bunched up over recruiting. Why should it matter if 1 guy went after 3 of the recruits you were on or if 3 different guys went after 1 each? Figure out what you want to do and adjust. 

Posted by spasticity on 10/12/2012 10:23:00 AM (view original):
So you find it strange that one instance of something elicited one response while 3 instances at the same time elicited a different response?  You say you want to understand the logic..well it's not complicated.  One player of mine gets taken away at the last minute, I won't think anything about it.  Two players by the same school, well maybe that was just bad luck/coincidence (and that's happened, no angry sitemails).  Three players and I'm really going to be ****** off.  It's a question of degree.  Instead of just cutting me off in traffic, you're taking your giant SUV and playing bumper cars to get over in my lane.  There are plenty of other lanes you know.

I really don't appreciate your narrowminded inferences about D3 coaches.  I would absolutely love it if all the best coaches stayed in D3 to compete with me at the version of the game I like the best.  It has nothing to do with a small pond.  The game itself is very different in D1 and some people don't enjoy it as much.  Please stop suggesting that coaches only stay in D3 to beat up on the little guys.

I don't see how everything you wrote isn't obvious.  

And there are plenty of D3 worlds that are outrageously competitive.  To suggest coaches just stay there to beat up on people is pretty stupid, to say the least.

How many great coaches have come into a D3 Wooden power conference and failed to create top-tier program?  Some have been able to do it.  Many more haven't.  D3 can be incredibly difficult.   

Posted by kmasonbx on 10/12/2012 10:33:00 AM (view original):
I don't understand why people get their panties all bunched up over recruiting. Why should it matter if 1 guy went after 3 of the recruits you were on or if 3 different guys went after 1 each? Figure out what you want to do and adjust. 

I do think it matters if it's an alias of a D3 coach/rival of chapel's.

Posted by kmasonbx on 10/12/2012 10:33:00 AM (view original):
I don't understand why people get their panties all bunched up over recruiting. Why should it matter if 1 guy went after 3 of the recruits you were on or if 3 different guys went after 1 each? Figure out what you want to do and adjust. 

its just a dick move. its like if you are playing chess (not untimed friendly chess) - you can halt the clock if both players agree, for whatever extraordinary circumstance may arise. but if your opponent spills hot coffee on his lap and rushes off to attend it, without requesting a stoppage of play, sure, you can opt not to pause yourself and just let him tick down until his flag drops. its legal, its within your rights, and its not cheating. but its still a dick move, and other chess players would look down on you for it, but if it was a rated game, the authority would side with you in your victory, however it may be won. same here, no difference really. nobody is saying he cheated or should be banned (assuming this is not an alias intentionally going after chapel). just that its a dick move respectable people would avoid.

i personally prefer not to condemn this guy, so many coaches are new and clueless. you cant really fault someone like that for not playing in a gentlemanly fashion, they simply do not know what that is. if it was a coach i knew of who was very familiar with the game, sure, i'd think less of them - but its still within everybody's right to do it.

Of all the fitting analogies, you went with a coffee-in-the-lap chess analogy?

I think that says something about you, billy.  Not sure what, but something.

Posted by isack24 on 10/12/2012 12:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kmasonbx on 10/12/2012 10:33:00 AM (view original):
I don't understand why people get their panties all bunched up over recruiting. Why should it matter if 1 guy went after 3 of the recruits you were on or if 3 different guys went after 1 each? Figure out what you want to do and adjust. 

I do think it matters if it's an alias of a D3 coach/rival of chapel's.

That would clearly be something different. 

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/12/2012 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kmasonbx on 10/12/2012 10:33:00 AM (view original):
I don't understand why people get their panties all bunched up over recruiting. Why should it matter if 1 guy went after 3 of the recruits you were on or if 3 different guys went after 1 each? Figure out what you want to do and adjust. 

its just a dick move. its like if you are playing chess (not untimed friendly chess) - you can halt the clock if both players agree, for whatever extraordinary circumstance may arise. but if your opponent spills hot coffee on his lap and rushes off to attend it, without requesting a stoppage of play, sure, you can opt not to pause yourself and just let him tick down until his flag drops. its legal, its within your rights, and its not cheating. but its still a dick move, and other chess players would look down on you for it, but if it was a rated game, the authority would side with you in your victory, however it may be won. same here, no difference really. nobody is saying he cheated or should be banned (assuming this is not an alias intentionally going after chapel). just that its a dick move respectable people would avoid.

i personally prefer not to condemn this guy, so many coaches are new and clueless. you cant really fault someone like that for not playing in a gentlemanly fashion, they simply do not know what that is. if it was a coach i knew of who was very familiar with the game, sure, i'd think less of them - but its still within everybody's right to do it.

I simply don't agree, the chess example is far far different IMO. I don't understand how you can say it's perfectly fine to do it to one player a coach is after but it's not OK to do it to multiple guys. Seems very arbitrary to me.

well, the reality is its not black and white, there are shades of grey. its not so much the multiple thing i object to - if these were two BCS schools, id be on the other side of the coin. ruthless, maybe, but thats about the extent of it. im not a fan of reaching down and battling a school for a single recruit, but it happens, and its tolerable. it sucks, because you have this major advantage being used by a school with a much greater capacity to find good players, and it just doesnt sit well with me. but some people have different opinions and if a recruit looks to be the best you can get, and you have to stomp on a lesser divisional school to do it, so be it. but three? i just don't see it. 

i suppose my belief comes from this. as a kid, i was ruthless in strategy games. i wanted to beat every opponent, and even if i was winning, that wasn't enough. i wanted to just crush them utterly. i was taught that was wrong, that the game is supposed to be fun for everyone. you can try to win, but you dont need to be so ruthless. it just ruins the game for others. so in short, i was taught and now believe, if you have the superior position - whether its intellect, board position, whatever - you have a responsibility to use it, well, responsibly. win the game, sure, but dont send the other kid home crying (actually, i was supposed to intentionally lose from time to time, but i never got the hang of that, and think that might go a little too far. but i can appreciate trying to win more gracefully). 

anyway, it just doesnt seem like a responsible use of power to me, to so ruthlessly crush a lower divisional school. you can do it, but its still a dick move. sure, its somewhat arbitrary, but so are things like this in EVERY game. when you are playing poker with a drunk friend, where do you draw the line, and stop taking his money. its very situational and somewhat arbitrary. maybe the more smack my drunken idiot friend talks, the more money i can respectfully take. maybe the more money he has, the more i can take. but at SOME POINT, you just have to look at it and agree you went too far. im not going to take a thousand dollars off my poor drunken roomate, even though im pretty sure on a few occasions i could have convinced them to keep playing long enough to do so. wheres the line? what makes 5 dollars ok and 1000 dollars not? surely, two friends enjoying a game of poker where the more drunk one is disadvantaged, and loses 5 dollars, is reasonable, no? but when he loses 1000 dollars its not. and i cant tell you where or why id draw that line, but its pretty clear to me there IS a line, and it falls somewhere between there.

similarly, in HD, id draw the line of using a divisional advantage somewhere between taking 1 recruit, and totally obliterating the other teams' entire class. i cant tell you where id draw that line or why exactly, but its clear to me there is a line there, too.