Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 12:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jvford on 10/17/2012 12:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 11:59:00 AM (view original):
But, again, businesses run on the bottom line.   Anything that affects bottom line is a factor.  To pretend it isn't is to just prefer not to live in reality.

In the scenario of increasing demand for your product, tax rates are irrelevant to hiring.

Incorrect.   Not sure how many times I can say it.

And I'll repeat that it's retarded and ignorant to assume every small business owner thinks the same way.  So quit implying that they do.  Thanks in advance.

I'll try this another way.    Times were good for about 4 until 2008(end of 2007).    Lots of people do the same thing I do(run small trucking companies).  Some did what you imply almost everyone does(GROW, GROW, GROW!!!! **** THE RISK!!!!).   Some did what I did and weighed the pros/cons of expansion.    Many of the GROW, GROW, GROW!!! aren't around now.    If you don't pay attention to the world around you, you run the RISK of being out of business.  Equate it to the couple that bought the million dollar home because they were suddenly making a pile of money.   Economy changes and they can't afford it.   They didn't weigh the risk of buying that big house on their new found wealth.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 12:14:00 PM (view original):
And I'll repeat that it's retarded and ignorant to assume every small business owner thinks the same way.  So quit implying that they do.  Thanks in advance.

Posted by jvford on 10/17/2012 12:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 12:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jvford on 10/17/2012 12:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 11:59:00 AM (view original):
But, again, businesses run on the bottom line.   Anything that affects bottom line is a factor.  To pretend it isn't is to just prefer not to live in reality.

In the scenario of increasing demand for your product, tax rates are irrelevant to hiring.

Incorrect.   Not sure how many times I can say it.

And I'll repeat that it's retarded and ignorant to assume every small business owner thinks the same way.  So quit implying that they do.  Thanks in advance.

No, correct.  If you don't understand it, perhaps you should speak to some other business owners who do.

Just about all business owners who are interested in growing, will hire more people when demand for their product is higher, no matter what the tax rate is.  The fact that you aren't experiencing higher demand and/or don't have a desire to grow makes your situation irrelevant to the discussion.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 12:19:00 PM (view original):

I'll try this another way.    Times were good for about 4 until 2008(end of 2007).    Lots of people do the same thing I do(run small trucking companies).  Some did what you imply almost everyone does(GROW, GROW, GROW!!!! **** THE RISK!!!!).   Some did what I did and weighed the pros/cons of expansion.    Many of the GROW, GROW, GROW!!! aren't around now.    If you don't pay attention to the world around you, you run the RISK of being out of business.  Equate it to the couple that bought the million dollar home because they were suddenly making a pile of money.   Economy changes and they can't afford it.   They didn't weigh the risk of buying that big house on their new found wealth.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I'l try it this way.

"The demand will always be there.  I gonna spend 1m on new machinery so I can keep up with the demand.   **** the risk!!!"

Out of business.  

It's reasonably apparent that you don't understand that businesses look at expenses as well as revenues.    Taxes are part of that expense.  

I'm not sure why you don't accept/understand this but it is a fact.  Those that don't shut their doors eventually. 

Maybe I understand it better because I was on that line for a long time.   Maybe I'm just more hands on with my business than the Average Joe.  Maybe I am comfortable enough that another 13k doesn't blow my skirt up.

Whatever it is, smart business owners know that they have to keep up with expenses and that includes taxes(and the rate that they're applied).    Bottom line should drive a business.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 12:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/17/2012 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 11:58:00 AM (view original):
I don't consider it "risk adverse".   Hiring people is nice.  Keeping them employed is better.   Don't know if you've ever had to let someone go.  It's not fun.   I'd rather not take someone away from a potential career for a 4-6 month job with me so I can make another $250 a week.    Perhaps I lack to ruthlessness to have go from small business to big business.    And, of course, I don't care to put myself out there for an additional 13k so the goverment can tax me at a higher rate.   Maybe if I had more faith in my government to spend wisely and allow me to sustain a certain level of revenue, I'd be more willing to a bigger risk to grow my business.

If you won't hire someone in order to net an additional $13k, then there probably isn't a magic tax rate that will make you comfortable hiring that person. Even if your tax rate is zero, you're still only looking at an increase of $384 a week.

But, if demand for your product was robust and hiring that employee would increase your gross revenue by $500,000, I'm sure you'd do it, even if the increase to your personal income was taxed at 39% instead of 35%.

It all depends on what is required and how it affects the bottom line.   I'm not Microsoft.  I can count nickels.   And, according to Obama, 98% of small businesses are in the same boat as me. 

Posted by jvford on 10/17/2012 12:58:00 PM (view original):
What MikeT doesn't seem to understand is that tax is not really an expense because it has zero chance of turning a profit into a loss.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2012 1:38:00 PM (view original):
Tax affects the bottom line.   Thus you can declare it whatever you like but it's a negative number, right?

You count nickels because they count.   If you're a Trump or a Gates, they may not be of much importance.   250k a year isn't "retire at 50 a rich man" money.   Increase in revenue comes with risk.  5-10k might not be worth hiring the extra labor, buying the extra materials or paying the extra shipping/storage costs.  And, in most cases, extra revenue is NEVER a guarantee.   Sometimes the best decision isn't based on the extra dollar you'll make but the extra dollar you won't spend.

As I said, opinions aren't going to change.

What's "best for the business" has many meanings.